Author Topic: Timing chain tension = non running FT500 on bike for sale? (Read 60373 times)

johnnymot1 · « **on:** October 01, 2014, 02:37:32 pm »

Can you guys remind me if a "timing chain tension-er in need of adjustment" on a non running FT500 is a deal breaker? I have a few, but honestly have not had time to re-educate myself if the motors are interference and if timing chain slack or jumping time is bad news for the valves and pistons?

A guy has one for sale locally for $750 obo, and states that is why it's not running. Gotta love all those "all it takes to get it running is....." ads. I'm sorta interested, but it would have to be a good deal to add to my hoarding collection of FT500s I've been amassing.

johnnymot1 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 01, 2014, 04:08:32 pm »

To help clarify, I talked to the bikes owner and he said he was riding and heard a "tunk".... and the bike quite running. It may be a moot point, but to me any "clunk, tink, chank" etc or similar "metalic" sound and the engine stopping, is certainly not a good sign. What to you guys think....Broken chain, jumped timing, and what sort of damage would I be looking at. What do you think a fair price is assuming the engine top end may be toast? I am interested in the rest of the bike for parts and it does have a clean title.

J6G1Z · « **Reply #2 on:** October 01, 2014, 04:25:29 pm »

Sounds like he's asking about 2 to 3 times what I'd be willing to pay for a bike that went "thunk" & hasn't run since.

All it's really worth is a Titled frame & the body parts. You know what I mean.

See if the engine rotates. Take a battery with you & see if the starter turns the engine. If it rotates... It might start with some attention. If it doesn't rotate, the engine is probably only worth the starter assembly.

J.

johnnymot1 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 03, 2014, 09:33:36 pm »

Those links are just what the fork doctor ordered! Thanks. That clears up a bit of the "voodoo" with some of the swaps I've been seeing of any number of different bike projects as of late. I'm expanding my parts bike ads/search to denver and vegas, as I sit in between, so hopefully they'll produce.

In the meantime I'm giving the FT500 seller a few days and see how fate works on the FT with the "timing chain slack"...A co worker volunteered to pick it up, which ups the ease and motivation for me if the price is right!

J6G1Z · « **Reply #4 on:** October 04, 2014, 09:39:31 am »

Fork swaps are becoming so common now, that All Balls makes several swap bearings. The races fit the frame, while the bearings are sized to match the donor steering stem. Steering stem length is usually the key issue. Often the original steering stem from the bike will be removed & pressed into the new triple clamp.

If you find a first gen CBR600 Hurricane, you won't have to worry about any of that stuff. The parts fit into the Ascot like they were designed for it.

Good luck
J.

scottly · « **Reply #5 on:** October 07, 2014, 07:42:44 pm »

Quote from: johnnymot1 on October 01, 2014, 02:37:32 pm

Can you guys remind me if a "timing chain tension-er in need of adjustment" on a non running FT500 is a deal breaker?
A guy has one for sale locally for $750 obo, and states that is why it's not running. Gotta love all those "all it takes to get it running is....." ads.

It generally means "It quit running and I have absolutely no clue what is wrong".
For what it's worth, the FT timing chain tension-er is self adjusting.

Lefty · « **Reply #6 on:** October 07, 2014, 09:23:35 pm »

As Scottly said, the timing chain tensioner is sprung to adjust on it's own- If I were you I'd grab that bike up, even if there's internAl issues you will have another bike you can get parts from.

johnnymot1 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 07, 2014, 11:31:21 pm »

I made my offer a day ago, and letting him think about it. I do have a running motor in a bent ft500 frame waiting to go in. Hopefully I will get an agreement and pick it up this weekend. I feel $400 is a fair offer.....hope he does as well.

Luke · « **Reply #8 on:** October 08, 2014, 12:42:45 am »

Fingers crossed for ya!

J6G1Z · « **Reply #9 on:** October 08, 2014, 09:26:31 am »

Sounds like a fair offer to me.

Good luck
J.

johnnymot1 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 11, 2014, 12:08:29 pm »

The little non-running ascot is in transit back to me as we speak. The seller was a good guy, and we agreed on the deal, and I sent my trailer with a friend of mine heading the sellers way to pick up. For me, when a bike is not running, the more interested I am in getting it back up and going again, as evidenced by the many sitting in my various storage places I have waiting to be brought back to life.

It should be interesting to see exactly what the "thunk" was once I start to investigate. The rest of the bike is all original, and one of my running motors awaits from my ascot hoarding/parts bikes collection if needed. I may be the unofficial ascot king of Utah, but I love the FT500s!

J6G1Z · « **Reply #11 on:** October 11, 2014, 12:41:05 pm »

Good for you. I'll bet that Utah bikes are in pretty good condition as far as rust & exposure to the elements.

J.

Lefty · « **Reply #12 on:** October 11, 2014, 07:20:55 pm »

YES! I kinda had a feeling you'd end up with it, haha!

Luke · « **Reply #13 on:** October 11, 2014, 07:31:57 pm »

Congrats!

johnnymot1 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 12, 2014, 12:05:32 pm »

Like a neighbor who rolled by the other day while I was surveying 3 bikes on my trailer in various pieces awaiting resurrection said "you have a problem don't you, me too" and then the obligatory touching moment of shared sentiment of "there are worse things to spend your money on". I do love em though, and when you look at what we get compared to what a SR500 is commanding these days, these things are good deals.

That same neighbor is the "enabler" who is bringing it back home this evening. It should be interesting to investigate and find out what the "chink" and non running issue is. Now I have to stop speed dating and make some commitments to some of these machines! I'll update on the exact issue of the new on on the coming days for posterity's sake.

johnnymot1 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 14, 2014, 11:07:29 pm »

All right. The FT500 orphan made it home to join it's five new siblings. It is my typical neglected FT500 adoptee, and has lived a rough 9600 mile life from sitting in a basement for years that led to a hap hazard gas tank coat job, to evidence of winter riding in road salt...Not too bad, but corrosion on the rims, fins, and some rust on the engine case bolts. Here's what I've done and my question:

Gave her a nice bath
Pulled the plug, squired oil in the cylinder and then turned over by hand......Good compression
Notice the Champion plug had no gap
Put in new NGK plug and tested....Spark.....
Put in battery....cranked (starter sounded good) and not start
Removed air filter and squirted a bit of staring fluid and ca chunk...tap, tap, tap, she fired.....
Notice the "tap, tap, tap".....It's the cylinder head area.
Obviously I have a no fuel issue to solve, but the tapping.......
I've yet to pull the valve covers (ran out of time tonight), but I'm wondering if it's a loose rocker?
Compression and timing seems to be there.

The other odd thing is that somehow someone "whacked" the tab on the frame that mounts the gear shift lever. It's bent inward and the top of the mounting hole/tab is almost sheared off...No other damage to the chain cover, peg, starter solenoid...nothing to indicate being laid down...The angle you have to achieve to just affect the shift mount tab is pretty incredible. It's repairable, but none the less a mystery.

Pics to follow at some point of the Ascot family and stages of disrepair and rebuild of each. It feels good to be surrounded by them in the garage however.....A random dog showed up today and just stared at them in a state of reverance, animal intuition. It licked my hand, and then licked an Ascot tire. More meaning than ET extending a glowing finger to a human.

J6G1Z · « **Reply #16 on:** October 15, 2014, 08:52:50 am »

There was another FT on this forum that had the shifter mounting tab broken off. That bike had the shifter mounted on the shift shaft. I can no longer recall who's bike it was.

J.

johnnymot1 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 15, 2014, 10:08:28 am »

My foot is big enough I could most likely go the direct shaft mount route. I may try and build the outter part of the tab/top of it back up too. It's a tough angle to straighten and bend with the engine in the frame, and again it took an incredible angle to just affect that part. Maybe hitting a curb at the just the right angle?

I'm pulling out the factory manual this evening and removing the valve covers to investigate the valves to see if that is the issue. With a little luck, TLC, carb rebuild, fork seals and a few more things hopefully she'll be back on the road again!

J6G1Z · « **Reply #18 on:** October 15, 2014, 10:38:48 am »

Here is the other Ascot with the broken shifter tab: http://ascot500.com/index.php?topic=318.msg1528#msg1528

I've looked at that area trying to figure out how that tab could be broken off the frame. It sits well inside the frame tubing & looks to be well protected. It must be a square impact right inline with the shift lever shaft that causes that tab to snap off.

J.

johnnymot1 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 23, 2014, 11:45:06 pm »

Once I get the correct sized photo, I'll post what mine looks like. The more I look at the damage the more it almost looks like the chain did it. Strange.

I'm still working on the engine noise. I adjusted the valves, but the noise remains, so I also need to go back and make sure I didn't make the mistake of adjusting them on the wrong TDC.

Otherwise, I'm about the adjust the balance chain tension-er which is probably 1600 miles over due. From there I'm also going to make sure I don't have the exhaust rattle. I'm still hoping its minor since the bike fires and runs, and I can get her on the road while working on my other FT projects.

J6G1Z · « **Reply #20 on:** October 24, 2014, 09:15:54 am »

Are you having trouble posting pictures?

I figured out how to increase the attachment size limits a little while back. You should be able to use any photo of 500KB or less. There is a primer on how to post pictures in the "Testing" section at the bottom of the forum. If all else fails, you can e-mail it to me & I can re-size it.

Good luck
J.

johnnymot1 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 26, 2014, 12:16:52 am »

Hopefully this will show the mangled shifter tab. Artistically speaking if you stare at it long enough it looks like a lizards head. Other than that, not sure how they pulled this off. This "9600" mile bike has proven to be quite the challenge for my mechanical aptitude I thought was pretty good at one time, having done frame off landcruiser restorations and conversions....This bike is making me wonder what happened to those skills!

J6G1Z · « **Reply #22 on:** October 26, 2014, 08:45:01 am »

It does resemble a chuck-a-walla head. LOL!

This makes two FT Ascots on this board with broken shifter tabs. I wonder how they get broken off? They seem well protected.

J.

johnnymot1 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 26, 2014, 09:04:21 pm »

Weird enough given the "raptor" marks on the chain cover in the pic too. It almost looks like a "tool" did the damage or a chain.

I finally got the fuel system swapped and cleaned up and got the bike to idle today. I'm still convinced my "tapping" is in the head at the exhaust valves. The guys on the yahoo forum reminded me I should use a feeler gauge under each tappet when adjusting, so I'm going to get two each of the correct size and readjust the valves.

Luke · « **Reply #24 on:** October 26, 2014, 11:54:02 pm »

Hang in there JM ... that's just Murphy flexin' his law.

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Author Topic: Timing chain tension = non running FT500 on bike for sale? (Read 60373 times)