Ascot Forum

First Generation Ascots => The Thumper Years: Modified To Full Customs => Topic started by: FT500R on August 19, 2013, 10:26:35 am

Title: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on August 19, 2013, 10:26:35 am
Hi guys

As a great fan of the yahoo group I had to check this forum out as well. I do think a forum is better for ongoing threads like projects.

My name is Paul a 27 year old mechanical engineering student from The Hague in The Netherlands.
I've been riding motorcycles since I was 18 and they were getting faster and faster, last year however I bought a ft500 as a commuters bike to save my zx6r a little.

I've completely fallen for the little thumper and even take it out on the fun trips in the weekends instead of my zx.
As a fan of fast and good handling bikes I do want to improve the FT's suspension a bit and also change the looks a bit more to my liking.

Enough about me, it's FT time.
I've bought my yellow '82 as a non runner. It had been standing for about a year because the PO had trouble starting it. After the purchase I replaced the battery, did the starter maintenance as described at the yahoo.groups and did a full fluids and spark plug change. It immediately purred like a kitty.
I did have to replace the starter spring with a homemade ballpoint one but it functions perfectly.
How the Ft looked when I bought it:
(https://s17.postimg.cc/sviylwl73/20121221_131951.jpg)
Ofcourse this is a project thread so what am I going to do with it.
I really wanted to change the front suspension, since I have a spare CBR900rr front end lying around, this is going in!
The steering stem is exactly the same as the FT's so no adjustment needed there.
Here is a picture of an original FT fork compared to the CBR:
(https://s13.postimg.cc/a7g5dg5if/20130819_163317.jpg)
The front axle is 20mm thick while the FT's is only 15mm.
At first I plan to run the cbr forks with the ft wheel so I ordered some new wheel bearings for the FT wheel with the correct axle diameter. Later I plan to install spoked wheels.
I then made some spacers to centre the wheel correctly into the forks.

I really like the upright position on the FT so I want to keep the original handlebars, this means adepting the CBR top yoke, I've bought a couple of risers from a salvage yard to mount to the CBR yoke.
I've had to shorten the stuts of the risers and rethread them because they were really long and had a strange non-metric thread.

Ofcourse I strenghtened the original yoke with some thick steel plates.

This is were I'm at so far, as soon as I have time I'll try a mock up to check the ground clearance and see what kind of spacer or adjustment plate I have to make to mount the front brake caliper.

It's in!
(https://s2.postimg.cc/e8hpplm21/20130820_154934.jpg)
I've had a couple of struggles along the way, for instance getting the original bearings out of the FT wheel was ridiculously hard.
(https://s15.postimg.cc/oy1llgoaj/20130820_173646.jpg)
As you can see the front brake caliper isn't mounted to the forks yet, I haven't figured out how to do this just yet and if spacers on the calipers or the wheels would be a better option. I'm also thinking of changing to a 4 or 6 piston caliper. If I do that I don't have to bother with the stupid sliding bracket of the ft.

I took it for a spin around my block, the suspension is a bit to hard at the moment but I didn't have immediate problems with the ground clearance. of course I haven't ridden it hard or took it round a real turn but we'll see how it works out.

I've bought a BMW F650 rear wheel to fit in the bike as well.
And I bought a CX500 tank, a quick mock-up of how that would look on the bike:

I'll keep updating this first post.
Any comments, both on my project or faults in my English are welcome :D

Has been a bit quiet here sorry. I've been crazy busy with an internship and will be busy for the rest of the year probably.
Did make some time to fabricate a bracket for my brake caliper. The cb spoked wheel will have to wait till I have more time.
A quick picture of the (quick) bracket I bodged
(http://imageshack.com/scaled/640x480/849/mslb.jpg)
Next up is new seals for the forks

Got both my wheels now. so eventually these bad boys will go in the ft
(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7885/mwus.jpg)

update 4/10

Got the fireblade forks out of the bike to see if I could fit the spoked wheel and bigger brakes.

I had to get new bearings for the wheel and fabricate some new spacers.
Right now the wheel is perfectly centered between the fork legs. However the brake faces on the hub seem not to be completely centered.
Any thoughts on this?

well, time for pictures I guess  ;D
(http://www.picturehost.eu/uploads/a7da16a12d74738a475393102c602a68_20150410_150251.jpg)
the wheel centered with the new spacers
(http://www.picturehost.eu/uploads/42e19a08327bcf364d2e8958c7bdded4_20150410_150302.jpg)
nicely centered
(http://www.picturehost.eu/uploads/5057ad785255fae1c31b48e7052f057a_20150410_151133.jpg)
with disks in the forks
(http://www.picturehost.eu/uploads/cda3ffe9130edb8193aacf25e527053a_20150410_151155.jpg)
lookin good


cheers Paul
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on August 19, 2013, 10:48:55 am
Welcome to the board Paul. Sounds like you have a great project on your hands. I've heard that other Countries received Ascots in yellow & blue. Here in the USA we only had a choice between black & red. I saw a picture of a Canadian Ascot that had a dual disk front brake that was supposed to be original equipment. It would be interesting to learn of the various configurations & colors that different Countries received.

I'm looking forward to hearing more about your bike & seeing some pics.

J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on August 19, 2013, 11:22:56 am
Hi J.

Most of our Ascots are red or black as well, mine is the only yellow one I've seen so far. No blue ones as far as I know.
The color also gave it its current nickname, the banana.
Dual front disks on an Ascot is something we do not have here. The front wheel can be easily fitted with another disk but the forks do not have another mounting point.
I'm thinking of installing dual disks on mine since I have a spare disk and the CBR forks do have the mounts.

Cheers paul
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on August 20, 2013, 01:25:05 pm
The fork is in!
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on August 20, 2013, 05:23:29 pm
The fork is in!

Cool!

It looks like you have some rough working conditions. Are you working outside on the street? I like your flower pot/motorcycle stand. ;D  Dedication & motivation will get you through it. Looking forward to hearing a more detailed ride report.

Good luck
J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: mike on August 21, 2013, 08:54:08 am
Ah... I live just round the corner from you and I've got an Ft500 on-going project too...
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: mike on August 21, 2013, 09:01:53 am
heres another pic of mine
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: mike on August 21, 2013, 09:20:52 am
Since buying it for €350 a year ago with just 20000 on the clock I have changed the cam chain, fork seals, steering head bearings. Cosmetically, I fitted a bottom mount bates style headlamp... fits very easily onto the steering lock lug once the steering lock is removed. I removed a big chunk of the rear subframe and fitted a short rear mudguard with BSA rear light and sawed off the back of the original saddle and stretched the cover back over which I think looks surprisingly good. The handlebars were also replaced as were the clocks for little stainless steel items found on ebay. New indicators fitted nicely onto the original rear bodywork mouting lugs. I too ride it more often now than my other bikes... it's a great little around town bike and perfect for short blasts up to the beach here in The Hague!
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on September 02, 2013, 04:52:26 pm
Hi Mike,

great to see another Dutch FT'er here, did you read my post on motor-forum or are you a regular at the yahoo groups as well. If you need any spare parts let me know, I have about 2 whole ft's in spares.

I think I've seen your bike once or twice on the Elandstraat (right around my corner).
I like what you've done with it so far, more plans for the future?

For me the top priority now is to get the front brake reassembled. The distance between the original caliper mounts on the CBR forks and the brake disc is really big. I don't know if I should put a bracket between the caliper and the fork mounts or a (big) spacer between the wheel and the disc. I've also scored a couple of 4 cup calipers which I would rather install than making a bracket for the shitty original caliper. Unfortunately I do not have a lot of time and just as J pointed out I'm working in the street.

Cheers pau
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: mike on September 03, 2013, 09:13:53 am
yes that would be me popping in Albert Schwein... I have some LEDs that I'd like to mount as odiot lights and wouldn't mind getting rid of side panels etc... Are you going to this Retro Wheels Festival in Scheveningen on 15/9?
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on September 07, 2013, 05:46:50 am
wow that is right around the corner, I did have some other plans which I might have to cancel now  ;)
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: mike on September 09, 2013, 10:48:47 am
I should be there around 2.30 ish... not sure whether to take the triumph or the ft??? decisions decisions!
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on November 11, 2013, 03:55:44 pm
I've been crazy busy and unfortunately enough not with the FT.
Did make a bracket for my front brake though so its rideable.

cheers paul

ps. Mike, I think I saw you passing by in september when you were on your way to that meeting. I was unfortunately not able to make it.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on December 09, 2013, 03:52:16 pm
bought some new wire wheels for the ft.
Don't know when ill have the time to install them but they will look nice.
The front hub has the same spacing as a lot of semi modern sportsbikes so I'm actually thinking of installing dubble big brakes!
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: Whata on January 27, 2014, 04:26:21 pm
Hey chanceless, werktuigbouw ftw  ;)

Nice work going on there  :)
I really like what you've done with the front end.
Though I'm curious how it will affect the bikes handling, as the shorter fork changes the rake angle.
If it turns out well, I might even try it myself   :)

Keep up the good stuff !

Wouter
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on February 08, 2014, 09:49:03 am
thanks wouter,

defenitely werktuigbouw ftw! almost done myself now so ill be calling myself in a couple of months :D
the ground clearence with the cbr forks is actually quite good. no complaints from me. I've still got the 19 inch front tire wich is huge, that helps a lot for ground clearance.
unfortunately my ignition switch developed a little issues so im looking for a new one or a way to mend it.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on February 08, 2014, 10:12:53 am
What is the ignition switch doing, or not doing?

I've repaired one before & had to replace one before. The one that I had to replace was broken in half & & the top half was missing. I ended up finding another ignition switch, gas cap lock & a key on eBay for not a lot of money. Think it was in the $30 range. I just unplugged the old switch & plugged in the newer one & all was well.

On the one that I repaired. It wasn't making electrical contact when in the ON position. I took it apart & lightly cleaned the small brass contacts with some extra fine sandpaper & contact cleaner spray. I then took an ice pick & carefully made several indentations in each brass contact. This raised some of the material around the indents. I then lubed up each contact with a dab of dielectric grease & re-assembled the unit. It worked fine after that & is still working.

Good luck
J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on February 13, 2014, 04:29:03 pm
i have excatly the same problem as you describe, no contact when the ignition switch is in the 'on'postion.
Traced it down to a faulty connection for the red wire, can't open the ignition switch though. Maybe I haven't tried hard enough ;)
how did you get it apart?
i've allready ordered a new one for 30 euros including a gas cap lock but having a (working) spare cant be bad.

cheers.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on February 13, 2014, 07:22:56 pm
I can't remember exactly which bike I repaired the switch on. I seem to recall bending a few tangs & the switch seperated into several sections.

There is a fusible link hidden in a plastic box by the battery that I recently discovered on my project bike. I haven't looked at the wiring diagram to determine where in the scheme that it falls, but you might want to check that out also.

Good luck
J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on February 14, 2014, 12:12:55 pm
you mean That fusible link in the starter relay housing? That can cause problems aswell, Im well aware of that.
I've replaced mine with a normal car fuse.

I've removed the complete ignition switch to measure it and thats when I discovered the problem so it can't be anything else.

I'll try to get it open, its already busted so it can't get any worse :D
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: colosseumrat on February 20, 2014, 11:00:15 am
Hi kansloos161,

I'm working on my custom FT as well. I was wondering what's the source of those nice spoke wheels that you intend to install.  :D :D

Cheers
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: hondapartsman on February 21, 2014, 05:46:37 am
You have my greatest respect young sir, I at least have a small back garden in which I can park ( although access is a little difficult) and work on my bikes on a hard if slightly sloped standing. I'd not want to do all you're doing, but then maybe you have youth on your side. My older bones find working on bikes on ground level to be a bit of a strain these days, I dream of a garage, or even a big shed like I used to have. I must talk to my friend who owns a workshop and see if he'll be happy for me to do work there, sometimes. Anyway, I'll be watching to see how this goes. All power to you.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on February 26, 2014, 10:18:47 am
@ hondapartsman
Thanks, so far I manage with the space in front of my house, I would really like to have a shed or back yard too, would really speed up the whole process and the fun in doing it.

@colosseumrat
The front spoked wheel is from a Yamaha xs650. I do not know if its the original rim. The front hub is great, it gives the oppertunity to install dual brakes and the hole pattern is very common.
The rear wheel is from a BMW r650 funduro. The BMW uses it the other way around (sprocket on the right hand side) but since the tire has to be replaced anyway that shouldn't be a problem
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: colosseumrat on March 03, 2014, 05:01:49 am
@colosseumrat
The front spoked wheel is from a Yamaha xs650. I do not know if its the original rim. The front hub is great, it gives the oppertunity to install dual brakes and the hole pattern is very common.
The rear wheel is from a BMW r650 funduro. The BMW uses it the other way around (sprocket on the right hand side) but since the tire has to be replaced anyway that shouldn't be a problem

Thanks a million for the sharing. I wish you good luck and I hope to see you around in NL or at Rust swap meet, in May in Amsterdam.
I'm based in Amsterdam.

Cheerio
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: Whata on March 09, 2014, 04:46:43 pm
Hey cool I'm going to the rusty swap meet aswell   :)
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: colosseumrat on March 18, 2014, 07:55:19 am
Hey cool I'm going to the rusty swap meet aswell   :)

Than let's meet up! :D
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: Whata on March 28, 2014, 03:24:21 pm
Yes sure thing  :)

I'll be coming on my black V-twin Ascot and a friend of mine on a Yamaha XS360, who has a pretty thick black beard for his age (if he doesn't shave it  ;) ).. for recognition
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on August 19, 2014, 10:47:33 am
Well I haven't replied in quite some time but I've still got my ascot.

I'll try to work on it this week again, unfortunately the work will be limited to getting it running again since it wont start.
I suspect a faulty cdi wire or something like that. Ill get my multi meter out and find out tomorrow.

I plan to change my steering stem bearings to conical ones and to do a valve clearance check aswell, maybe also do the airfilter mod and change the jetting.
Hopefully ill get it running by the end of the week.
When I have some more time (and money) I want to start work on the spoked wheels, I have want to buy new brake discs and calipers for this so it will have to wait a bit.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on August 19, 2014, 11:38:43 am
Hang in there. Those long term projects are often forgotten. Just keep plugging along at your own pace & post up any progress that you make. Build posts are very motivational.

Make sure you perform that jetting change. Nothing gives you a better bang for your money than replacing those two jets. Might as well pick up a 16 tooth countershaft sprocket to take advantage of the newly released power after re-jetting.

Good luck
J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: plasticadam on August 29, 2014, 05:53:05 am
I completely support J's comment - hang in there kansloos. My project started in December - supposed to be finished by May - unlikely to complete before October now. And I have the luxury of an overcrowded garage! Sometimes it seems that every time you get one thing working again it throws up a fault in another.
Worst thing is that this is all for the wife - and she wants her new bike ;D
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on October 23, 2014, 04:07:10 pm
Although my work is taking up most of my time, it does have it's benefits.
I have a buck or two to spend on my ascot!
I already had the xs650 spoked wheel which I am planning to install, but I didn't have any nice brakes yet...

Tada:
(http://s29.postimg.cc/46r7bjstj/2014_10_22_22_44_29.jpg)

These are dual yamaha fzr1000 320mm brakediscs that fit the hub perfectly.
I've also ordered a set of nice ducati multistrada brembo brake calipers to complete the setup.
Now I just have to find time to install all my goodies...
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on October 23, 2014, 04:14:55 pm
Very nice!!!

That will look sweet on the front.

J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: Luke on October 23, 2014, 04:25:34 pm
x2! That looks sweet!
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on October 24, 2014, 07:10:37 am
indeed 2 discs :D

coupled to these calipers:
(http://s14.postimg.org/hc9a9ryvl/2014_10_24_12_49_25.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on October 24, 2014, 09:06:18 am
Ooowie!!! Those are sexy!

Now you need one of these: http://www.brembo.com/en/bike/Racing/Racing/Pages/Master-Cylinders.aspx  LOL!
Actually I used the front master from a Ducati Monster on my FT/CBR hybrid. It has the "coffin" style of box shaped fluid reservoir & even has a mirror mount in the correct location with the correct size/thread for the Ascot mirrors.

You will definitely stop just fine with just one of those disk brake assemblies on the front. The dual disk is just icing on the cake.

J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on October 24, 2014, 10:04:46 am
Hahaha i'm sticking with the spare cbr900rr master cylinder that I have. although the radial brembo one is a sure bit of bike p*rn.

One disc would defenitely be powerfull enough but I like the looks of the double disc :)
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on October 24, 2014, 12:11:27 pm
Dual disks look more balanced.

J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on November 02, 2014, 09:07:48 am
just a quick mock-up of the discs and calipers on the front wheel.

(http://s27.postimg.cc/9aip9l7ab/2014_11_02_14_33_02.jpg)
(http://s29.postimg.cc/jz3oeuzaf/2014_11_02_14_33_13.jpg)

me likey!
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on November 02, 2014, 09:24:01 am
Those Brembo calipers are pure sex!

If they are as an impressive improvement as one of their master cylinders, you will be very happy every time you use them.


J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: AndreLindholm on March 21, 2015, 10:59:40 am
Those wheels will look great on the bike! Have you mounted them yet?
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: WTF304 on March 21, 2015, 09:37:52 pm
That's some real beauty.... keep your chin up, take your time .... can't rush perfection.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: Slyphon on March 24, 2015, 05:32:04 pm
Is the CX500 tank a direct fit? I purchased a CB750 Super Sport tank last summer, but the tunnel is a slightly different shape and narrower. It will take a bit of work to get it on there.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on March 31, 2015, 12:41:20 pm
haven't been online for a while and haven't done anything to the bike unfortunately.
I've been to busy with work and I don't have a garage to work in. (I'm really done with working on the street so I think I'll have to start looking for one)

Regarding your questions:
@J6G1Z: I have a fireblade master cilinder and lever so will fit that with the ducati brakes... she will probably stop on a dime than.

@AndreLindholm: No I haven't gotten round to fitting the wheels yet. If I start with the fitting Í'll  defenitily post every progress here.

@WTF304: thanks. Really want to take more time to work on the bike though, there is rushing and there is no progress....

@Slyphon: the tank is not a direct fit. The tunnel of the cx tank is way wider than the ascots. This is an easy fix by replacing the rubber pieces that hold the tank with wider ones or something like that.

thanks for posting guys.
Helps me to remember that I should start working on the bike again.

regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: WTF304 on March 31, 2015, 02:47:31 pm
You've got time and money in it, it would be nice to enjoy thE fruits of your labor. Should be a real head turner when she's all done.

Just keep picking at it
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 10, 2015, 09:31:22 am
thanks guys,

The replies on this topic made me realise I had to work on the bike again.
Got the fireblade forks out of the bike to see if I could fit the spoked wheel and bigger brakes.

I had to get new bearings for the wheel and fabricate some new spacers.
Right now the wheel is perfectly centered between the fork legs. However the brake faces on the hub seem not to be completely centered.
Any thoughts on this?

well, time for pictures I guess  ;D
(http://www.picturehost.eu/uploads/a7da16a12d74738a475393102c602a68_20150410_150251.jpg)
the wheel centered with the new spacers
(http://www.picturehost.eu/uploads/42e19a08327bcf364d2e8958c7bdded4_20150410_150302.jpg)
nicely centered
(http://www.picturehost.eu/uploads/5057ad785255fae1c31b48e7052f057a_20150410_151133.jpg)
with disks in the forks
(http://www.picturehost.eu/uploads/cda3ffe9130edb8193aacf25e527053a_20150410_151155.jpg)
lookin good

regards Paul
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: Lefty on April 11, 2015, 05:56:54 pm
WOW, that's cool as hell!
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 16, 2015, 07:47:05 am
just bought a set of cb700sc rear shocks as was recommended in the ' race bike' thread.

Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: WTF304 on April 16, 2015, 10:40:54 pm
Looks like you're bike is going to have a nice balance of old and new styling. That setup looks real good, what forks are those ?  .... i had thoughts about finding a nighthawk front end to use for dual disc brakes, the forks are the same diameter and the front wheel is the same style .... forgot what year it was the one i was looking at.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 17, 2015, 04:13:57 am
Thanks,

The front forks are from a CBR900RR Fireblade from 1996. So they are more than capable of keeping the little ascot on the road.

regards Paul
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 18, 2015, 01:17:49 pm
Bought a new headlight today.. its biiiiig!!!!  8)
(http://s10.postimg.cc/8t8d07zkp/20150418_190409.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: ex119x on April 18, 2015, 03:48:58 pm
just bought a set of cb700sc rear shocks as was recommended in the ' race bike' thread.
I thnk you will like the shocks. I have mine set on the next to highest spring preload and middle on the damping. That is for race use and I weigh about 120 K. If you are lighter and riding on the street I would start on the softest settings for damping and preload.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 20, 2015, 04:39:25 pm
just got these bad boys in the mail
(http://s9.postimg.cc/6e53g50in/P4160236.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: WTF304 on April 21, 2015, 01:41:58 am
That's a monster light .... what that come off of ? .... might look real good with an HID ...
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 21, 2015, 02:53:04 am
Its definitely BIG! it's quite old too.
It says made in Japan on the glass. if I were to guess I would say it comes from a suzuki gsx1100e or something similar.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on May 06, 2015, 03:02:47 am
Changed the fork seals of the fireblade forks yesterday.
(http://s17.postimg.org/l3qy4ioxr/20150505_142546.jpg)
(http://s22.postimg.org/c22ceiexd/20150505_155026.jpg)
(http://s23.postimg.org/6rgioljwr/20150505_184326.jpg)

next up are the stem bearings and fabrication of spacers and bushings to fit the brakes to the wire wheel.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on May 12, 2015, 04:30:36 am
altered my top and bottom yoke today.
Got rid of the steering stops on the bottom yoke and the hole for the ignition switch in the top yoke.
Ill paint them later today.
(http://s24.postimg.org/5zqprwwad/20150511_184946.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: triguyracer on May 12, 2015, 02:03:38 pm
Question about the cb700sc shocks been looking on ebay and see there are quite a few for sale,most list them as 15 inches eyelet to eyelet.My stock ones are 13 inches,am I missing something when I look at ones to buy,did they use diff ones on some models that where shorter or longer ?
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on May 12, 2015, 02:12:15 pm
they are longer than the stock ones, don't know exactly how long. Ill measure them later.

I've finished painting the yokes!
(http://s16.postimg.org/kswgod485/20150512_184336.jpg)

(http://s21.postimg.org/4vjhknm3b/20150512_184400.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: WTF304 on May 12, 2015, 03:14:39 pm
It is possible..... the one's i put on mine were from a CB550 nighthawk same year as my FT .... fit fine just had to swap 1 bushing from the FT stockers to the CB's. If anything those should fit it and if there was any difference between the CB's it would have been due to position and weight, only sense i can make from that. Had to but some M16 washers from homedepot cause the width of the eye's were shorter to space the tops like they should be but the bottom eye's were exact.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: ex119x on May 13, 2015, 02:07:46 am
The shocks from the 700 Nighthawk are substantially longer. The point is to change the steering head angle. Stock it is raked out too far and gives lazy handling. By raising the rear end and going to a slightly smaller front wheel you are rotating the entire bike and decreasing the steering head angle to a more sportbike like angle. I haven't measured mine, but I should. That in combination with the straight in line forks from a CBR instead of the stock leading axle forks makes the front end very responsive. I like a steering damper at that point because the bike can feel a little twitchy at times.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on May 15, 2015, 06:20:13 am
just got word from the guy who made my spacers!
(http://s22.postimg.cc/h6brbvqht/DSC_2584.jpg)
he also made my day :D

the shocks are 37 cm long (center eye to center eye) so about 14,6 inches

this was a rough measurement though.

looking forward to your topic patrick4wd!
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on May 19, 2015, 12:14:50 pm
i've test fitted the spacers and bushings.
Looks good!:
(http://s21.postimg.cc/3y1q021tj/20150519_174753.jpg)
(http://s9.postimg.cc/besbmvf1r/20150519_174805.jpg)

ofcourse I couldn't resist to put the wheel in the front forks.
(http://s3.postimg.cc/wi4elov1f/20150519_175642.jpg)
(http://s16.postimg.cc/v1933yv1h/20150519_175703.jpg)

Fortunately the caliper runs free from the spokes (forgot to measure)
One of the claws hits the claw mount on the forks while the other one fits behind it. I can try to solve this by making the right bushing a bit smaller or I'll solve it with the adapter plates for the claws which I'll have to make anyway.

Any tips on cleaning a spoked wheel? tried with WD40 and some sanding linnen but that doesn't sort the wanted effect.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: thumb on May 19, 2015, 12:42:53 pm
spent quite a few hours over the years cleaning rusty spokes and lacquering them ,only for them to rust up with the year again
Have a look at these on the Evil bay search "spoke skins"
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: triguyracer on May 20, 2015, 12:28:27 pm
steal wool works good,I have 3 of the xs650 wheels and forks with alloy triple clamps that I use on my vintage dirt trackers.A drill with a fine wire wheel works good also,1000 or 2000 grit sandpaper works, a bit of grunt work but will work well 
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on August 17, 2015, 08:43:20 am
I've made some time this weekend to work on the little thumper:

First I swapped the original head bearings with conical ones
(http://s10.postimg.cc/wje0t8ma1/IMG_20150814_155224.jpg)
(http://s1.postimg.cc/yctzodcgf/IMG_20150814_164331.jpg)

The conical head bearings for a FT fit nicely on the Fireblade stem. It's incredible how easy a set fireblade forks can be fitted this way.

Together with the fireblade forks, the XS650 wheel, FZR1000 discs and Multistrada calipers my frankenstein bike looks like this:
(http://s14.postimg.cc/5twexkp0h/IMG_20150814_170452.jpg)
(http://s10.postimg.cc/u7b2srg09/IMG_20150814_170624.jpg)

I have to fabricate some adapters for the calipers to fit to the forks.
(http://s30.postimg.cc/8czkesjgx/IMG_20150814_171327.jpg)

The next day I test-fitted the BMW F650 rear wheel
(http://s16.postimg.cc/gsr0iz5g5/IMG_20150816_143706.jpg)
(http://s3.postimg.cc/eqqgi9kj7/IMG_20150816_144522.jpg)

I've also removed the rear to see what I would want to change:
(http://s12.postimg.cc/yuk7nox31/IMG_20150816_145308.jpg)

I'm still in doubt about the BMW rear wheel.
The hub is quite wide, this gives some issues with chain allignment. It also rubs on the brake caliper mount (easy grinder fix though)

Both the rear sprocket and the brakedisc are a different diameter as the stock FT so that might give some issues aswell.

I'm also thinking that a 18 inch wheel might look a bit better...

Does anyone know a bike with a 18 inch spoked rear wheel with discbrakes? preferably honda because those are like lego's :D

cheers Paul
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: WTF304 on August 18, 2015, 05:22:45 pm
Man that looks sweet .... i like how it looks, keep at it.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: triguyracer on August 19, 2015, 12:08:17 pm
You might try looking for a used late model motorcross or dual sport bike that uses a disk on the rear there are many to chose from.Your build looks great
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: Kornfed on August 01, 2016, 10:39:11 am
Curious about the progress.
Did you finish the bike?
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on March 27, 2017, 11:34:17 am
After many many moons of inactivity I decided to give the project another go this weekend.
Where the bike was still technically ridable in the past I figured that if I'm going to do it, I might as well do it right and really disassemble it.
Warning the pictures are quite horrific, the bike has been under this cover for over a year.
(https://s29.postimg.cc/w0bh78fs7/IMG_20170326_122329.jpg)
(https://s29.postimg.cc/qz7uryz47/IMG_20170326_130512.jpg)
(https://s30.postimg.cc/ner07bli9/IMG_20170326_170921.jpg)
The bike was surprisingly easy to tear down. Took me about 1,5 hours from the first to the last picture.
Plan is to do the engine first. I'm not going to give it a complete overhaul but just do some basic maintenance (valves, camchain etc), freshen up the paint and all new stainless steel bolts.
After/in parallel I'm trying to source and fit a Honda nx650 or transalp rear spoked wheel.
Eventually the plan is to turn it into a nice little bratstyle bike to blast around the city on.

I'll keep you guys posted on any progress
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on March 27, 2017, 09:36:21 pm
Holy cow Paul! Those are some tough working conditions. Glad to see that you're still at it. Keep up the good work.

J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on March 28, 2017, 11:41:48 am
Yep,
Thats one of the reasons that progress has been very slow.
Every time I disassembled the bike I had to make sure I was able to assemble it again within the day.
Unfortunately a real garage is almost unobtainable here in Amsterdam.

I've taken the engine inside now so I can work on it during the evenings in my living room.

This project will never be a fast paced one but nonetheless I hope to eventually have a nice little bike that I can enjoy.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on March 28, 2017, 02:08:08 pm
Do you have a back porch, balcony, or maybe even a bath-tub?  ;D

You wouldn't be the first guy to build a bike in his living room.

Good luck
J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 03, 2017, 03:51:53 pm
I do have a balcony and since the weather today was very good in the early evening I decided to work on the engine a bit.

Armed with a ton of de-greaser, a copper brush, some steel wool and a lot of toilet paper I tried to clean the very dirty engine.

I realized quite quickly that Honda did not design the engine with cleaning in mind, way to much unreachable nooks and crannies.

This is how bad it was:
(https://s9.postimg.cc/66ftuutov/IMG_20170403_174724.jpg)

(https://s17.postimg.cc/bkgrsemwf/IMG_20170403_183748.jpg)

After some scrubbing (who ever had the idea to make these large crevasses where chain grease builds up?)
(https://s8.postimg.cc/dtspn8045/IMG_20170403_180313.jpg)

The eventual some what clean result
(https://s28.postimg.cc/vc00enowt/IMG_20170403_190526.jpg)

Goal of today was not to get it shiny clean but clean enough so I can have it in my living room without receiving to many complaints ;)
I you guys have tips how to better clean it, especially in the small corners and in between the cooling fins they are more than welcome.

I also removed the rev cable mounting. Ill probably fabricate some sort of plastic insert and than cap it using a small steel plate using the original bolt hole
(https://s30.postimg.cc/fbfvc8ltd/IMG_20170403_184722.jpg)

Unfortunately I also discovered that I am not the first to tinker with the bike, I found a large array of different screws, nuts and bolts with this being the absolute winner:
(https://s2.postimg.cc/3td8t7xo9/IMG_20170403_184728.jpg)

After cleaning its time for ordering parts!
The FT has a strange angled inlet manifold to help clear the battery tray but since I'm not using this anymore I wanted a straight inlet.
In one of the old Yahoo message board files I found a post about the possibility to use a Harley inlet manifold for which you only needed to oval the mounting holes a bit.

I ordered it and got it in the mail some time ago
(https://s30.postimg.cc/ai1rmhls1/IMG_20170403_204556.jpg)
However the carb mounting hole is slightly smaller than the original carb (42 vs 44mm) after some persuasion it does actually fit.
I am a bit worried about the original bracket that holds the throttle cables but I'll test that later.

Next part is deciding on how to paint the engine.
I'm leaning towards this look
(http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx287/postyrob/IMG_1365.jpg)
so silver/polished side covers and cam cover, black cilinder, cilinder head and polished cooling fins.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on April 03, 2017, 04:46:46 pm
I've used the foaming oven cleaning spray before. It is becoming difficult to find in the USA though. If you find some & try it, make sure you wear protective clothing, gloves & eye protection.

It looks like you might have a lot of rain in your area. Raw aluminum will not stay nice looking if it is exposed to moisture. It will turn chalky white, or worse. If you want a nice silver type of appearance, look for a Powder Coating shop. Here are a couple of wheels that I had powder coated.

J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on April 03, 2017, 05:27:45 pm
Here is something else you might be interested in.

https://www.z1enterprises.com/bolt-set-ft500-ascot-82-83.html

http://www.ukbolt.co.uk/448-qty-kit-honda-ascot-activa-atlas-aviator-stainless-engine-frame-allen-bolt-65886-p.asp

Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 05, 2017, 06:22:42 am
Thanks for the tips.
I'm still a bit in doubt if I should use galvanized or stainless bolts since the stainless can react with the aluminium engine and seize.

I did continue on the bike yesterday.
First I did a quick check if the carb would fit on the engine with the short Harley inlet.
Conclusion... inconclusive. With just the inlet manifold it doesn't fit. With the original spacer between the cilinder head and the manifold it almost fits. Problem is the bracket that supports the throttle cables. This will have to be altered in order for it to fit. (also taking into regard that the throttle cables themselves have adjusters on them making the fit even tighter)

You can see the fitment issues in the pictures, also clearly visible is that the time standing still under the cover took its toll on the carb.

(https://s16.postimg.cc/vex119mat/IMG_20170404_182245.jpg)

(https://s3.postimg.cc/m7gggjg2b/IMG_20170404_182253.jpg)

(https://s21.postimg.cc/8bud9dh13/IMG_20170404_182307.jpg)
Seeing the carb in the state that is was made me decide to try to clean it a bit.

Some bolts did not completely agree with my effort though
(https://s12.postimg.cc/je3b4wyi5/IMG_20170404_190006.jpg)

(https://s12.postimg.cc/nwy5g2uxp/IMG_20170404_190000.jpg)
Some light encouragement with a impact driver solved that issue

The eventual exploded view of the carb
(https://s22.postimg.cc/bv44poskx/IMG_20170404_191621.jpg)
And after some thorough cleaning
(https://s15.postimg.cc/sv5syjs2z/IMG_20170405_075758.jpg)

(https://s10.postimg.cc/p8oqf42nd/IMG_20170405_075835.jpg)
I'm probably going to spray paint the rusted brackets and replace all the bolts.
When I was disassembling the throttle and choke stems (what would be a more appropriate English word?) I found some completely disintegrated seals. I couldn't really identify what they were made of. Looked almost like some kind of rope-like material.
Any of you know what kind of material this has been since they definitely need replacing?
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on April 05, 2017, 01:25:40 pm
That cleaned up well. I think I might have left the butterfly attached & cleaned around it. See if you can stake those two screws in place from the backside. If not, clean the threads real well & use some stout Lok-Tite thread locker. Wouldn't want those screws to back out while the engine is running. Pretty much guaranteed that they won't end up in the air-cleaner side.

Here is the only FT500 carb rebuild kit that I know of: https://www.randakks.com/ft500-ascot-randakk-master-carb-overhaul-kit.html
They also offer a book on how to rebuild & modify the FT500 carb. Here is their site link: https://www.randakks.com

The FT500 carb is a nice piece. It has an accelerator pump that feeds a squirt of fuel into the carb every time you twist the throttle. I use that feature to prime my bike prior to starting.

Another option would be a 36mm Mikuni. Some have used the 34mm & modified bikes have used the 38mm. If you go that route, you will need a 90 degree throttle cable mount on top of the carb to clear the frame.

About stainless steel fasteners & aluminum...  Whenever I work on a bike, I use an anti-seize paste on all the fasteners upon reassembly. I cover the threads, the shank & the backside of the screw or bolt head.
https://www.permatex.com/products/lubricants/specialty-lubricants-anti-seize/permatex-anti-seize-lubricant-2/
http://www.antiseize.com

I wish that all the bike manufacturers used anti-seize during initial assembly.

Here is another bit of information that you might find helpful: http://ascot500.com/index.php?topic=128.msg460#msg460

Good luck
J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 14, 2017, 05:11:16 am
Took some time to work on the engine last night

To get the engine ready for paint I wanted to remove both side covers and the valve cover.
This did go pretty smooth up to the point that I got to the valve cover, a couple of the bolts needed a bit of convincing and a bit of thread came loose. The worst one actually snapped of halfway in the threads :(.

I'm going to freshen up the threads with a screw tap and try to remove the broken peace.
Time for some pictures:
Left side
(https://s11.postimg.cc/6z9ow2gs3/IMG_20170413_201141.jpg)
Left side engine cover
(https://s21.postimg.cc/d672auinb/IMG_20170413_201148.jpg)
Right side
(https://s21.postimg.cc/xnlybewdj/IMG_20170413_203102.jpg)
Camshaft looks pretty ok, the lobes are not worn down or anything although they have a bit of marking on them.
(https://s3.postimg.cc/dy63tfhfn/IMG_20170413_211745.jpg)
Thread that came out of 2 of the bolt holes
(https://s7.postimg.cc/hko1l531n/IMG_20170413_211701.jpg)
Bolt that snapped
(https://s15.postimg.cc/h23v5xu3v/IMG_20170413_211924.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: triguyracer on April 14, 2017, 10:32:52 am
Try using a left handed  drill bit , many times this will remove a broken bolt without damaging the threads in the head, doesnt work all the time but will work many times, also using some heat from a hand held torch will help swell the alloy from around steel bolt and help free up the bolt so it will come out 
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 20, 2017, 03:13:24 am
Had some time during Easter holidays to work on my engine

I tried to clean the engine as much as possible. Looking back I should have left the side and rocker covers on and powerwashed the engine. Now I had to slave using degreaser, wirewool, old toothbrushes, Q-tips and my Dremel to try and get all the grit and grease off.
(https://s8.postimg.org/gh5fu7w85/IMG_20170417_163837.jpg)
How the engine looked after some thorough cleaning (yes I worked on it on my living room table)
(https://s3.postimg.cc/ha9x37wg3/IMG_20170418_111338.jpg)
After cleaning I had to mask everything. I figured out a fast and effective way to mask small parts using cling foil! Works very well
(https://s16.postimg.cc/4dq0c3g79/IMG_20170418_115528.jpg)
After giving the engine a first coat of primer
(https://s12.postimg.cc/e6dgj1hgd/IMG_20170418_164241.jpg)
All the silverware after its first coat of paint
(https://s3.postimg.cc/8tn0f3pz7/IMG_20170418_185236.jpg)
All painted pieces.
(https://s23.postimg.cc/qbvupvd17/IMG_20170418_195733.jpg)
A quick mock up of the engine
(https://s22.postimg.cc/ykx5k8vu9/IMG_20170420_221800.jpg)
The other side
(https://s2.postimg.cc/xsbo73lo9/IMG_20170418_225224.jpg)
And a before and after compilation just for the fun of it

I've used motip wheel spray for the engine (VHT is better but that is not sold to consumers here in the Netherlands) I'm not disappointed by the results so far although I think that, especially for the amount of work I put into it, with a bit more prep and a better working environment the result could have been even better.
I deliberately did not mask all the bolts as some of them were quite rusty and I didn't want to replace them because that would mean I had to disassemble the whole engine.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on April 20, 2017, 02:17:35 pm
That looks real nice!

When it comes time to start the engine, you might consider gently heat cycling the paint. Start the engine & then shut it off as soon as you feel warmth. Let cool completely & then repeat several times while allowing the engine to become warmer each time.

It will probably stink like paint fumes for a while until all the solvent is cooked out of the paint.

J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 21, 2017, 09:31:14 am
Will definitely do that.
The paint I used is not an official heat resistant paint so it will smell quite a bit I think. I've seen it used on many (air-cooled) engines though so it can handle the heat.
I've added a picture of a mock-up of the other side of the engine in the previous post.
I'm now ordering stainless steel bolts but I ran into a small problem. Honda uses 6mm bolts for almost everything but somehow they decided to use 7mm bolts for 2 of the 13 bolts in the valve cover. 7mm bolts are very hard to find so that's a small issue. (Can't have 2 ordinary bolts while I replaced all others with nice stainless steel ones...)
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on May 01, 2017, 09:37:18 am
The mailman came to my door again

(https://s8.postimg.cc/l4hvy7p0l/IMG_20170_170606.jpg)

Some small original Honda parts (tacho cable delete and oil filter) and a whole shitload of stainless steel bolts.

I've spent yesterday evening prepping all covers for reinstalling. Had to remove a lot of old gasket, sand the surface area, determine which bolts go where (have an Excel file with pictures if someone is interested) clean up the threads of some of the mounting holes etcetera.

A rather tedious job but it atleast means I'm getting closer to assembly which is always nice.

I've also replaced all bolts in the carb and found a way to mount the throttle cable bracket without it hitting the cilinder head.

I'm going to sand the cooling ribs on the cilinder and head tonight so hope to be able to post some pictures of that soon.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on May 01, 2017, 04:37:41 pm
The result of sanding the cooling ribs and mocking up the engine again:
(https://s11.postimg.cc/pyxskajpv/IMG_20170501_214829.jpg)
The other side
(https://s9.postimg.cc/jjjuctwtb/IMG_20170501_212809.jpg)
I also ovaled the mounting holes on the harley inlet manifold to use is on the FT
(https://s11.postimg.cc/45cki6br7/IMG_20170501_220448.jpg)
This puts the carb nice and close to the cilinder (and now the carb sits straight so it's easy to mount a big open air filter)
(https://s4.postimg.cc/qbbnjjiot/IMG_20170501_220642.jpg)
You do have to alter the throttle mounting bracket a bit though (you need to grind away a bit at the bottom so it can tilt a bit further)
(https://s23.postimg.cc/gonxp0bcb/IMG_20170501_221420.jpg)
I still have to tidy up the bracket itself ofcourse

Next step is get some liquid gasket and then close the engine for real.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on May 07, 2017, 04:10:56 pm
Unfortunately I ran into the exact problem that a lot of FT's have.
Stripped cilinder head cover boltholes :(

When pulling them to the prescribed tension 3 of them snapped through.

This are the culprits:
(http://i67.tinypic.com/1ph5yu.jpg)

I probably have to get a Helicoil thread repair set and rework most of the threads.

To relieve some agression I got my grinder out and started working on the frame.
Removed some small brackets that I didn't need anymore and cut the back of the frame
(http://i67.tinypic.com/svja08.jpg)
cut up frame
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2roonfc.jpg)

The bike looked as follows with the cbr900rr forks and xs650 front wheel, standard rear shocks and rear wheel.
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2h54aye.jpg)
Next I mounted the longer shocks and the BMW wire wheel that I still had.
(http://i67.tinypic.com/nv8a2s.jpg)

How the seeting position will roughly be.
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2prih7b.jpg)

A day with some ups and downs. Glad with the look of the bike with the wire wheels and the shocks. Not so glad with the stripped bolts ofcourse
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on May 12, 2017, 05:13:54 am
Was able to work on the bike yesterday

When removing the head bolts to take the cilinder head off, 2 of the bolts got rounded. Had to actually chisel them to oblivion in order to get the head off.
The first one was relatively easy, the second one however..
(https://s2.postimg.cc/fmagl9auh/IMG-20170510-_WA0004.jpg)
Eventually it gave in and with only small damages in my fresh paint the head could be removed.

There was a lot of sud on the valves
(https://s7.postimg.cc/3ncy4g84b/IMG_20170510_173644.jpg)
They cleaned up pretty nice though
(https://s27.postimg.cc/nhkhh8fzn/IMG_20170510_205347.jpg)
The piston looked pretty good, not a lot of sud here.
(https://s21.postimg.cc/5mqxmcsfr/IMG_20170510_173731.jpg)
After cleaning I also checked the cilinder and you can still see some honing marks (not a lot though)
(https://s28.postimg.cc/8ihb3tsul/IMG_20170510_205806.jpg)
To get to one of the holes in the cilinder head I had to drill the hole a bit bigger in order to reach the threaded part with the cutting tool. This meant drilling very close to the camshaft seats..
(https://s10.postimg.cc/mjrmtv361/IMG_20170510_195941.jpg)
The Helicoils went it quite smooth so i'm not dissatisfied with the results
(https://s12.postimg.cc/k57sv7crx/IMG_20170510_221448.jpg)

I've ordered some new flange nuts for the cilinder head (plus some other parts I needed) and when I get these I can start to rebuild the engine (again)
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on June 06, 2017, 06:04:10 am
It's been a while since I posted something here but I've made a bit of progress
Started out by working on the tank.
That got pretty dirty after spending 2 years under a cover outside
(https://s11.postimg.cc/l8retop6b/IMG_20170513_120346.jpg)
Fitst cleaned it a bit
(https://s24.postimg.cc/imdk2bujp/IMG_20170513_123351.jpg)
(https://s28.postimg.cc/5xk6lqu59/IMG_20170513_121535.jpg)
The holes on the side are only used as mounting holes for the side panels, since I won't use side panels these can go.
First marker out where to cut.
(https://s28.postimg.cc/jzq7lppfh/IMG_20170514_124708.jpg)
And eventually without the holes
(https://s22.postimg.cc/h5hynwu75/IMG_20170514_125745.jpg)
For now I won't paint the tank. This will be done in a later stage.

I went to Japan for holidays (got a bit of inspiration while there too) and when I came back I had some parts waiting for me
(https://s10.postimg.cc/cmupxebzd/IMG_20170530_121541.jpg)
I also received my new cockpit. A cheap one from china but it looks ok and I could take the risk for the money
(https://s22.postimg.cc/w2g58hysx/IMG_20170603_120527.jpg)

Among these parts were some new exhaust studs, the former owner used low quality bolts from a DIY store so I was pretty lucky I did not have to put helicoils in these boltholes.
(https://s29.postimg.cc/qiv69gnav/IMG_20170530_130145.jpg)

Now I was able to install the cilinder head using my nice brand new headnuts. You can't order the copper rings anymore so I had to heat treat them myself in order to reuse them
(https://s11.postimg.cc/r1k5iznyr/IMG_20170530_131653.jpg)

After this I could fit the camshaft, camchain sprocket and camchain. Quite a shitty job and I was a bit anxious that it might be off by one tooth but it seems to have gone right.
The real test was refitting the headcover cause this would test my new helicoiled boltholes. Fortunately this was a succes!

Cleaned, greased and tested the solonoid assembly and closed the rest of the engine. Time to work on the rest of the bike
(https://s22.postimg.cc/kd8attbz5/IMG_20170530_190209.jpg)

I decided that I was completely done with working on the bike in front of my house so I disassembled what was left and put the bike on my balcony.
Here I fitted the aluminium handle bars that I had bought some time ago and also fitted the (very large) headlight
(https://s9.postimg.cc/q5dh4f1m7/IMG_20170605_182208.jpg)
(https://s4.postimg.cc/4f509ffzh/IMG_20170605_182153.jpg)
I still have to lower the headlight a bit more judging by the pictures.
I'm also not very satisfied by the mounting brackets but since I'm using fireblade forks which are very thick there are not a lot of options here.
I've also test fitted the battery and it seems like I can get away with a small battery compartment just below the seat.
Good news since I want to keep the frame part as empty and clean as possible.

I also measured the spacers for the rear wheel but I ran into some issues here. Although I measured from the wheel rim to the rear swing arm on both sides and the distance is equal. It still looks like the wheel is offcentre, it might be that the swing arm is not symmetrical. Does anyone have a tip how to properly space your wheels?
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on June 06, 2017, 11:13:57 am
Does anyone have a tip how to properly space your wheels? 

You might have to wait until the engine is mounted so you can check sprocket alignment.

J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on June 07, 2017, 04:57:32 pm
Sprocket alignment is only one of the issues.
I want to make sure the wheel at least is centered in the frame, I'll worry about the sprocket later.

I was thinking of hanging something like a plumb-line from the middle of the frame and try to determine the center of the wheel of of that.

Got to working on the electrics today btw:
To be diagram
(https://s12.postimg.cc/yr95mxx4d/met_cockpit.jpg)
And I have to fabricate that using the below bowl of spaghetti
(https://s16.postimg.cc/clk6lxewl/IMG_20170606_184946.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on June 28, 2017, 12:17:24 pm
time for some updates:
testfitted the engine and made a cardboard template for the battery box
(https://s30.postimg.cc/8z96dn0v5/IMG_20170613_183517.jpg)
(https://s9.postimg.cc/ptzn8z8nj/IMG_20170619_155500.jpg)
roughly test fitted my new cockpit
(https://s15.postimg.cc/k6q8mrbm3/IMG_20170619_154144.jpg)
(https://s17.postimg.cc/b0ek4pkvz/IMG_20170619_154152.jpg)
Alligned the rear wheel
(https://s18.postimg.cc/m73p14n0p/IMG_20170621_194006.jpg)
Also installed the front brakes to determine where the brake calipers are going to be and what kind of brackets i need to fabricate. After bleeding the brakes for hours I finally got them up to pressure.
Unfortunately the brake fluid leaked on my tripple tree :( i didn't properly close the reservoir.
My bad and I will just have to redo this when I get the frame painted or coated
(https://s15.postimg.cc/lh330m1iz/IMG_20170627_165628.jpg)
(https://s15.postimg.cc/5lb5y2uvv/IMG_20170627_165936.jpg)

got some stuff in the mail too:
Wiring loom parts:
(https://s10.postimg.cc/5y0uqzbt5/IMG_20170619_160318.jpg)
New jets although the pilot is the wrong one :(
(https://s24.postimg.cc/cbh84soid/IMG_20170619_131702.jpg)
frame rear loop and steel for the battery box
(https://s7.postimg.cc/vixbocmsb/IMG_20170628_170914.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: greenjeans on July 03, 2017, 09:12:11 am
Really starting to look good! 
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on August 01, 2017, 04:18:44 pm
Thanks!
I really like the look too and really enjoy doing everything on it myself.
Today I was able to rent a welding machine (last time I did some welding was almost 10 years ago and I never properly learnt it)
First I prepared everything for welding.
I made the battery box and determined where all the electronics can go.
(https://s1.postimg.cc/aq10absqn/IMG_20170719_181339.jpg)
First welding job was the hoop as the subframe extension.
I deliberately did not post a picture before I cleaned up the welds ;)
(https://s2.postimg.cc/krdptzxqh/IMG_20170801_103751.jpg)
Next step was to attach the batterybox. I started out by spotwelding it
(https://s4.postimg.cc/63npczzwt/IMG_20170801_121618.jpg)
After welding the parts between the spotwelds I cleaned up the rear. I'm pretty stoked about the result although it is far from perfect.
(https://s2.postimg.cc/dyruq649l/IMG_20170801_144237.jpg)
I also welded some brackets in the batterybox so I can attach the electronics in there.
(https://s2.postimg.cc/etazgt0cp/IMG_20170801_160716.jpg)
This is how it looks from the side, you can also see the bracket for the contact switch just in front of the batterybox.
(https://s1.postimg.cc/h7w6knl4f/IMG_20170801_162407.jpg)
Although I am pretty happy with the result (as I did it all by myself) it does pose a bit of a problem.
My welding (and grinding) skills are not sufficient to get rid of all the imperfections. I was planning to have the frame powdercoated but now I have to use some bondo to get it tidy and this means no powdercoat. It does mean that I might be able to do another thing myself... spray paint the frame :).
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on August 01, 2017, 07:10:06 pm
Here is something that might be helpful: http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=23719.0

Keep up the good work.
J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: murdo on August 03, 2017, 04:09:45 am
Looking good.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: Lefty on August 07, 2017, 05:48:05 pm
Wow, looking good! I haven't been on this site for a good while.
Nice job, looking forward to the finished product👌😎
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on November 02, 2017, 05:45:42 pm
It has been a while but I've been able to do some work on the bike :D

I wasn't really satisfied with the way my welds looked so I decided to try a special Bondo that is heat resistant.

I've bondo-ed the parts between the underside and the frameloop and between the batterybox and the framerails
(https://s1.postimg.cc/7dcpq8zzm7/IMG_20170829_200857.jpg)
(https://s1.postimg.cc/4btl374atr/IMG_20170829_175815.jpg)

I altered the original footrest holders to accept modern footrests
(https://s1.postimg.cc/7r6e2xy51b/IMG_20170916_125420.jpg)

I managed to source the rear brake and mounting plate of a BMW funduro (I already had the complete rear wheel). I was able to install all this without to much alteration.
(https://s1.postimg.cc/3bnyxovtgv/IMG_20170913_154029.jpg)

I also made a bracket for my cockpit but I don't have a good picture of it.

The oversized headlight I have was painted (rat)black by a previous owner. I used some steel wool to clean it up and I have to admit it looks pretty good. I'm actually contemplating to keep it bare metal (put some clearcoat on it though)
(https://s1.postimg.cc/8c3ab2lnmn/IMG_20171029_151636.jpg)
(https://s1.postimg.cc/5a7e9upw1r/IMG_20171029_151615.jpg)

I had my frame and some loose parts coated.
Unfortunately something that I already anticipated actually happened. The underside curled up due to the heat and seperated from the frameloop.
I'm probably going to put some black kit or something in between to make sure no moisture can get in between.

The normal camera on my phone died so I had to take all these pictures with my crappy selfie camera so the pictures do not do the coated parts justice. In real life it looks better!

(https://s1.postimg.cc/4a1s4ckmfj/IMG_20171102_192710.jpg)
(https://s1.postimg.cc/9b6ma2iz3j/IMG_20171102_192739.jpg)
(https://s1.postimg.cc/59umvoqgen/IMG_20171102_192733.jpg)

The parts that I bondo-ed (looks rough in the picture is actually very smooth and looks better than expected)
(https://s1.postimg.cc/3ryz1kw8fz/IMG_20171102_192833.jpg)
(https://s1.postimg.cc/10pwtiqetb/IMG_20171102_192815.jpg)
The rear part that unfortunately seperated a bit.
(https://s1.postimg.cc/5yb51iy9cv/IMG_20171102_202632.jpg)

Time to start the rebuild!
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on November 03, 2017, 10:56:57 am
Way to keep at it.

By any chance have you mocked up the final ride height & kick-stand length? I had to shorten my kick-stand so the bike wouldn't tip over to the opposite side.

J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on November 06, 2017, 07:31:17 am
I did a mock-up before and due to the shorter front forks but longer rear shocks it works out. (as you can see later in this post)
Because it is build-up time!

Although I live on the 3rd floor I've started to assemble the bike (in my livingroom). This helps me to determine what I still need to do/order.

steering stem with new dust seals (already had the tapered bearings):
(https://s1.postimg.cc/7117i3k7rj/IMG_20171105_130302.jpg)
Complete tripple tree assembled including my new dashboard
(https://s1.postimg.cc/5s0kiadtrz/IMG_20171105_131636.jpg)
Rear swing arm mounted.
(https://s1.postimg.cc/19bathkfq7/IMG_20171105_152358.jpg)
Engine in.
(https://s1.postimg.cc/6wglboavof/IMG_20171105_163407.jpg)
Mock-up without wheels
(https://s1.postimg.cc/7ew5sm2chb/IMG_20171105_164832.jpg)
And this is how she sits in the living room now.
(https://s1.postimg.cc/17xj6medxr/IMG-20171105-_WA0007.jpg)
(https://s1.postimg.cc/4kt0f5udxb/IMG-20171105-_WA0008.jpg)
(https://s1.postimg.cc/7ql9s9pirz/IMG-20171105-_WA0009.jpg)
It looks far more complete than it actually is.
I still need to do the complete wiring loom and make all the spacers for the front brakes and rear wheel.
Most of the stuff that I assembled now probably has to come of the bike a couple of times but I'm very pleased with the (intermediate) result
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on November 06, 2017, 09:46:15 am
That is a nice looking "Shop" you have there!


J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on November 06, 2017, 03:38:13 pm
Hahaha yep.
Have to make due with the room that I have.

Bike looks a lot better with handlebars mounted.
(https://s1.postimg.cc/2bq2prnhnj/IMG_20171106_183559_01.jpg)

Funny how much difference that makes.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on November 06, 2017, 09:20:49 pm
I was fixated on the size of the headlight & the spotless "Shop".

Didn't even notice the bars were missing.  :-[

J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on January 02, 2018, 07:52:28 am
Got rid of all the paint on the tank
(https://s13.postimg.cc/3mamiz1tz/IMG_20180102_125759.jpg)
(https://s13.postimg.cc/nto2blrp3/IMG_20180102_125716.jpg)
I don't know for sure what color I'm going to paint the tank. I might keep it without paint. Maybe some pinstriping.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on January 02, 2018, 09:35:12 am
Pinstripe & clear coat.

J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on February 21, 2018, 02:00:13 pm
Its been some weeks but I've been primarily busy with the wiring loom. That did pay off though as all the lights work, the starter system works and I have a strong spark!

(https://s13.postimg.cc/mn8g3deo7/IMG_20180124_220057.jpg)
(https://s13.postimg.cc/zemma3lxz/IMG_20180221_195339.jpg)

Next step is to get the chain alignment correct. I took some of the rear wheel parts to my friendly neighborhood metal worker and had him turn a couple of mil from the sprocket holder and mil of some more from the brake caliper bracket. Should be in line now!
(https://s13.postimg.cc/pst1tm7l3/IMG_20180221_184834.jpg)
The new rear brake looks pretty nice on the underside of the swingarm.
(https://s13.postimg.cc/g8e0keurb/IMG_20180221_205106.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 22, 2018, 02:18:44 pm
Quite some time ago that I've posted something but I'm still working on it!
I've painted the edge of the tank and the part of the tank where the saddle used to rest upon.
(https://s14.postimg.cc/56pr2psxt/IMG_20180304_220103.jpg)
I've moved house again which means the bike is not in my living room anymore but in my own little storage/workspace on the ground floor
I've ordered a lot of stuff: new tires (to be fitted), chain and sprockets, material for the brake caliper spacers and much more small bits.
Also refurbished the exhaust
(https://s14.postimg.cc/6lrbrumfl/IMG_20180421_132116.jpg)
Unfortunately it turns out the exhaust studs are too short while I thought I ordered the longer ones. Have to try and source some new ones of the correct size.
The bike itself now looks like this
(https://s14.postimg.cc/futi1gfqp/IMG_20180422_152938-01.jpg)
(https://s14.postimg.cc/kth0g0eep/IMG_20180422_152911-01.jpg)

The to do list is getting shorter and shorter!!
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on April 22, 2018, 09:10:35 pm
Congratulations on more work-space.

Bike is looking cool!  8)

J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on April 22, 2018, 10:19:08 pm
Is it just my computer, or have your pictures disappeared?  :-\

J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: murdo on April 23, 2018, 05:59:32 am
Pictures still there for me.  :)
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 23, 2018, 03:00:48 pm
@J6G1Z. Somehow the links to all my old pictures don't work anymore. I haven't found out what went wrong but hope to get em back up soon.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 24, 2018, 11:02:12 am
The picture host changed all their links for some reason. So after going through all my posts and changing all links the pictures work again
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on April 24, 2018, 11:29:03 am
The picture host changed all their links for some reason. So after going through all my posts and changing all links the pictures work again

Oh good!

You have some great progress pictures.

Is the forum picture feature difficult to use or need some type of modification?

Thanks
J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 25, 2018, 03:42:02 am
I also have a topic on a Dutch motorcycle forum. I usually copy the posts I make there and translate them. On that forum I can't upload pictures very easily so that's why I have to link to external image hosting website anyway. Therefore I've never used the picture feature here.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: Dynachuck on May 19, 2018, 05:33:41 pm
The bike is looking fine,can't wait to see it finished. Nice wheels, I remember the old Akront and Borrani valence wall rims from the 60"s and 70's, very nostalgic.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: Donny026 on June 06, 2018, 02:02:53 pm
 ;D epic!
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on June 15, 2018, 05:09:06 am
Your burn victim is likely to be done before this one though Donny.
When finished we should definitely do an ascot custom ride ;)
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on July 04, 2018, 04:49:45 am
Clearcoated the tank and headlight yesterday.
Used two component rattle can clear coat which worked out very nice.
(https://s22.postimg.cc/y33dxu03l/IMG_20180702_202127.jpg)
(https://s22.postimg.cc/a0mk2qtoh/IMG_20180702_220037.jpg)
(https://s22.postimg.cc/76jepc9ip/IMG_20180703_073023.jpg)
I've also made the chain to length and filled the engine with oil (still have a small leak from the left engine cover that I can't get rid off)
Almost ready to start for the first time!
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: triguyracer on July 04, 2018, 02:15:27 pm
Have been watching your build for over a year and must say it is one of the nicest builds I have seen of a FT ,I really like the wire wheel conversion and was hoping to do the same to my FT. Maybe over this next winter I will get to it as soon as I figure what wheels I am going to use . I will be keeping the stock front end which I have upgraded with Race Tech fork springs that work xclnt.I am sure you are glad to be almost on the road after so much work. Good luck on your very nice ride 
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on July 06, 2018, 08:44:04 am
@triguyracer

Thanks! really appreciate that. It has been quite the adventure and with limited budget, tooling time and space available is has not been a fast project at all.
Really happy with how it is turning out though.

Had a mayor breakthrough today.
The first start since the rebuild!!
This engine has not run in probably 4 years.
First start:
https://youtu.be/7k1QLKwnchw
Walkaround while running:
https://youtu.be/5Uk_HOUV0mE
Still some issues though. I have the feeling the carburator overflows into the engine, I've drastically changed the angle of the engine and carb. The overall setup also does not seem to be OK. Not suprising me since the carb, top-end etcetera all have been re-assembled.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on July 06, 2018, 09:34:47 am
IT'S ALIVE !!!

I don't recall if you changed the carb jetting. May need to richen it up some.


J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on July 11, 2018, 10:03:02 am
I indeed changed the jetting.

Looks like there was not enough gas in the tank (only added a little bit of fresh fuel after the clear coating), when I changed the fuel petcock to reserve she ran quite a bit better:
https://youtu.be/M04rX-Lbeyw
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: Lefty on August 22, 2018, 07:04:54 pm
Wow, I haven’t been on here in a long time. Your FT is looking so cool, kansloos! Way to go, & that SuperTrapp looks right at home(I am slightly biased, though)!!!
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on September 03, 2018, 03:23:22 am
I've been able to work on the bike again over the past few weeks.

With the engine now running the next prio was the brakes.
Made some brackets out of aluminium myself. Not super pretty and not super accurate but it gets the job done.
(https://s22.postimg.cc/cscg4viu9/a1c495f6-6f0b-4acd-aa5e-ed48d34b3095.jpg)

This meant that I could actually ride the bike for the first time after the complete rebuild!
She handles like a moped, so light but also so loud haha.
(https://s22.postimg.cc/yrius97g1/afacb4b9-24c8-4904-ae54-6cc7baa50a79.jpg)

I'll be joining the destinguished gentlemans ride on the 30th of September in my home town so I'm making sure to get the to-do list as short as possible for that ride.
She already looks quite good though
(https://s22.postimg.cc/oiqdlytjl/d8709cd8-402c-40bd-a36a-e916891d7509.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on September 03, 2018, 10:31:31 am
Good job!  8)

Seat looks a bit hard though.  :D


J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on September 05, 2018, 08:37:12 am
Hahaha definitely. Seat is at a leather shop to get upholstered now. Will be done in a week or 2~3
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on October 06, 2018, 12:19:20 pm
It's done!!!

Or at least kind of.
I got the seat back from the upholstery shop, really pleased how it turned out.
So after 4 years of working on the little FT, this is how she looks now:
(https://i.postimg.cc/0QNWgb7r/IMG_20180929_105234-03.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/GmLdBjCf/IMG_20180929_105303-01.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/pXk3Sbw0/IMG_20180929_105241-01.jpg)

I got the seat back last Saturday, just in time for the Distinguished Gentlemans ride.
(https://i.postimg.cc/sD5t4GmR/FB_IMG_1538420420275-01.jpg)
The ride towards the start (roughly 2 miles) went OK, but I already noticed some strange electrical behaviour (cockpit blinking on and of)
After about 500 yards into the official ride the bike stalled and didn't want to start for a good 15 minutes.

When I got it started up I went home immediately, bike seems to have some issues with either the earth leads or maybe the ignition switch.
Back to the (electrical) drawing board.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on October 06, 2018, 01:28:17 pm
Has it really been 4 years ?!?!?  :o

Way to keep plugging along. Bike looks great!

Hope the electrical issue is easy to diagnose.

J.

PS. I over-tightened the screws on my FT-CBR ignition switch & cracked the housing. It was very slight & I didn't notice at first. The bike would run fine & then just stall out without warning. It became progressively worse until I was able to see the crack. Replaced the ignition switch & all was well again.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on October 08, 2018, 08:13:10 am
A bit over 4 years already!  :-[
Of course the project lay dormand for quite a long time and I had to do everything without a decent workshop but still....

So far the electrical issue does not seem easy to diagnose.
When I turned on the ignition yesterday everything seemed to work as normal.
When I pushed the start button, power went out. I suspected a faulty fuse but none where bad.
Disconnected the battery.
I did a check on the starter solonoid wiring, disconnected and reconnected it.
Reconnected the battery.
Now when turning on ignition I do have power again. When pushing the starter button I only hear the solonoid clicking that I installed that turns of the lighting when starting. No other solonoids or starter motors are working.
I'm going to check that extra solonoid and see if there is power going through it or not.
Also going to bypass the ignition and I have a spare starter solonoid.
My fear is that I used too thin wiring throughout the loom...

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on October 08, 2018, 10:26:45 am
Verify that battery is up to the task.

Many FT owners chase their tail over non-start issues due to a faulty/weak battery.

J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: murdo on October 09, 2018, 05:04:00 am
And also check for bad earths and loose terminals.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on November 18, 2018, 08:18:38 am
I still have these electrical gremlins that I just can't seem to figure out.
My whole electrical system will just turn on and off without any apparent reason.

I've made a short movie to illustrate.
https://youtu.be/pQlZ6E-UWeY

So the ignition switch is on, when I rock the bike back and forth the electrics start going ape shit.
Anyone any hints to what it could be?
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: murdo on November 22, 2018, 02:51:36 am
You must have a loose connection somewhere, or a short to earth.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 13, 2019, 07:56:17 am
Haven't posted in a long time and this was mainly because the bike wasn't running and I didn't have time to address it.

Spend some time on it the past few weeks and did find a couple of electrical issues.
The starter control unit seems to have died. I've connected the yellow black wire directly to the green red effectively bypassing the SCU. I don't see the purpose of that thing anyway...
Next to that I ran another ground wire directly from the battery negative and that seems to help a lot.
The starter motor spins now, all the relays work as intended but it seems like there is a (mechanical) problem between the starter motor and the pinion gear.
I think the starter motor bearing is so worn out that the motor doesn't engage with the Gear between the starter motor and the pinion gear.
I know this bearing is a weak spot so will try and source a replacement. Anyone know the correct type?
Does mean taking of the complete left engine cover to reach it though :(
Next to that I think my battery is dying on me.
After 2 or 3 start attempts it will not be able to get the motor to turn anymore. It doesn't slow down or anything but it just more or less shuts down.
I can still hear the relays clicking but the starter motor doesn't turn and the cockpit does a restart sequence as if I switched of the ignition. I think it does this because the battery cannot handle the required starting current anymore.

Anyone more thoughts on this?
What other than a worn bearing could cause the startmotor not to engage with the intermediate gear? (Start motor shaft looks ok, some small wear marks. When I do not have the pinion gear installed the startmotor does turn the intermediate gear but as soon as I install the pinion gear it doesn't anymore.)
And perhaps some tips for the battery check?

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on April 16, 2019, 12:17:30 am
Paul,

Check out the Yahoo FT500 Ascot owners group. The admin there is real sharp on the FT starter system.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/honda-ascot/info

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/honda-ascot/files

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/honda-ascot/files/Starter%20Issues/

Good luck
J.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on January 28, 2020, 09:14:52 am
Bike is still not running.
Still problems with the starter.
I think the starter control unit died. Anyone any idea how to bypass it or test it to see if it is broken?
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: hellblom on March 12, 2020, 03:19:08 pm
Hi!

my tip is to skip the starter control unit all together. Check my simplification of the electric system out in the thread here: https://advrider.com/f/threads/honda-ft-500-ascot-group.1420469/page-3

My electric system is now without both the SCU and the starter solenoid relay and the drawback is that I can start the bike with a gear in, which for me is not a big problem but perhaps for some.

Regards
Olle
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on March 26, 2020, 04:52:11 am
Thats very interesting.
Was looking to get rid of the SCU and the starter solonoid relay anyway so will dig into it.
I do have enough time on my hands due to the lockdown anyway ;)
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on March 26, 2020, 04:57:16 am
oh btw, get all those people from that forum on here!
This forum works way better than that one and we could always do with more activity here.

I saw some people on that thread looking for a solution for the tacho cable hole on the cilinder head. There is actually an original honda part to block this hole. I think it is a XT or XL 500 part.
I've used it too.
I won't register for that forum just to tell people that but you can mention it to them.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on March 31, 2020, 04:33:13 am
With the use of the info provided by Hellblom I've re-assessed my wiring loom.
I went from the already quite thinned down version to an even thinner one.
I could still make it even thinner by removing the lightgreen/red wire towards the fusebox and removing the 1 way diode but since this is all already wrapped in tape I'm just going to leave that for now.
The wiring diagram has already changed a whole lot from the standard one.

Hope to get some (quarantaine) time to actually change and test it over the coming days.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 01, 2020, 01:41:11 pm
Did all the modifications to the wiring harness today and they all seem to work so that is awesome.
The bike still won't start though, the electrical starter keeps wirring without engaging with the pinion but it does make a strange noise.
To further investigate I opened up the starter pinion cover to see what is going on there and if something is wrong with the solenoid as I couldn't hear it work.
I replaced the solenoid spring some years ago with the spring of a ballpoint and it looks like this spring wore out a bit. The return action of the little cog is not as fast as it should be. After adjusting it still moves slowly back to the rest position so maybe the actuator in the solenoid binds up.
Further inspection showed quite some wear on the pinion gear.
I also found a lot of play between the starter gears. Does anyone recognize this as normal?
I made a small movie to show how much play
https://youtu.be/ZNgOrX7_dO4
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: hellblom on April 01, 2020, 03:31:17 pm
Nice going on the electrics! It's fun to follow your progress, I am in the midst of tampering with my bike as well due to the lockdown. I am really interested in knowing more about the "plug" for the hole in the cylinder that the tacho leaves when you remove it. Do you have a good link for somewhere I can buy it? I live in Sweden, so a European site is preferable.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: hellblom on April 01, 2020, 03:35:54 pm
I will try to get the people from the other forum here. The best forum so far for FT500 was the yahoo group which now sadly is closed.

Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 02, 2020, 02:38:19 am
Nice going on the electrics! It's fun to follow your progress, I am in the midst of tampering with my bike as well due to the lockdown. I am really interested in knowing more about the "plug" for the hole in the cylinder that the tacho leaves when you remove it. Do you have a good link for somewhere I can buy it? I live in Sweden, so a European site is preferable.

I checked my old orders and I believe it's this part:
https://www.cmsnl.com/products/cap-head-cover_12316473000/#.XoWG5ogzbIU
only 3 euros and they deliver everywhere in the world.
It's number 2 on this diagram so it is actually meant to plug this hole:
https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-ft500-1982-c_model50099/partslist/0034.html#.XoWH34gzbIU
Might be worthwile to order some more parts with them because of the postal fees.

By the way if you are going to replace your exhaust studs. Order these, these are the correct length FT500 ones (XL500 ones are shorter)
https://www.cmsnl.com/search/?section=all&q=92900-060350B&tab=schematic

If any of you has the starter side of the FT500 open and could check for play on the starter gears that would be awesome!
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 02, 2020, 02:50:28 am
@Hellblom.
You can see the plug in this picture
The bolt above it is just to plug that bolt hole and doesn't have any other use.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: hellblom on April 02, 2020, 07:38:46 am
Thanks! I am really wondering though how this plug is attached to the bike, is it made of elastic rubber and is really squeezed into the hole? I wonder because I know there can be quite a lot of oil trying to leak out of that hole, I have a home made plug there now which leaks even though I tried my best to make it tight.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 02, 2020, 02:09:09 pm
@Hellblom.
It is a I think metal plug with rubber coating. You have to take of the valve cover to mount it in between the valve cover and the cilinder head.
You could also try to source a rubber plug that fits and than make a plate that attaches to the bolthole above to keep it in place.

I opened up the engine of my bike today and as always it is 1 step forward, 2 steps back..
First I had to open the complete left side of the engine to get to the starter gears that I suspected were damaged. Ofcourse this means draining the oil, loosening the left engine cover which of course ripped the gasket.
Then opening the cover in which the gears live. Of course ripping that gasket to..
Who ever designed this at Honda did not have easy maintenance of these gears in mind.

When I took out the gears at least it was instantly clear why there was so much play in the gear system..
There are 3 teeth that have sheared of the first gear and one on both the gears on the reduction gear. I checked the outgoing spline of the startermotor and it is still ok, 1 small mark but nothing serieus.

I started digging around in the engine and found all 3 missing teeth of the first gear. 1 came tumbling out of the oil drain plug, 1 was in the bottom of the left casing the last one found its way into the generator..
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 02, 2020, 02:17:45 pm
As you can see some of the magnets of the generator are damaged.
I can probably grind the protruding pieces of metal down again and then hopefully it will be alright.

The wired part of the generator (guess its called the stator because this is not rotating?) is also damaged.
On one picture you can see the insulating material has been damaged, the windings still look alright.
On the second picture there is also clear damage on one or more of the 'heads'. Again I can probably grind the protruding pieces of metail down but I don't know if this will effect the functioning of the generator?

Anyone know if the surfaces need to be absolutely smooth or if, as long as the windings are intact, it will work?

I am looking for new starter gears now but it might be very difficult as all the breakers I am contacting have already sold exactly those parts (didn't know they were that prone to break)
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: hellblom on April 02, 2020, 03:07:36 pm
Hum, not so fun for you! Perhaps time to do the kickstart conversion?

Thanks for the links to the plug. I will purchase it along with some other good stuff to have. For me, I will start switching out the tank tomorrow, wish me luck!

Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: murdo on April 03, 2020, 04:00:50 am
Bad news about the starter gears. So long as the stator windings (wires) are not broken then just smooth up the metal bits and it should still work ok.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 03, 2020, 08:57:45 am
@hellblom.
Thinking about doing the kickstart conversion. The gears that broke are FT500 specific and completely unobtainable.. Might be nice to install a kickstarter and be done with relying on these parts. Making a list of parts that I would need to do the conversion now as I cannot find a decent write up of a total conversion. Oh and good luck with the tank!

@Murdo.
I will test the stator wiring, although I fear the worst and also wouldn't want to ride around with a stator that is about to fail. So also looking at replacing it but again the stator is also a FT500 specific piece (apart from an obscure cb250 variant).

Really hope this doesn't sideline my project.
I at least want to make sure I refurbish this stator or get a new one and could even do with bumpstarting but would be best to get either a kickstart or the gears for the electrical starter. I've put so many effort in this bike it would just be such a shame to stop it now.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: scottly on April 03, 2020, 01:12:43 pm
Nice going on the electrics! It's fun to follow your progress, I am in the midst of tampering with my bike as well due to the lockdown. I am really interested in knowing more about the "plug" for the hole in the cylinder that the tacho leaves when you remove it. Do you have a good link for somewhere I can buy it? I live in Sweden, so a European site is preferable.

I checked my old orders and I believe it's this part:
https://www.cmsnl.com/products/cap-head-cover_12316473000/#.XoWG5ogzbIU
only 3 euros and they deliver everywhere in the world.
It's number 2 on this diagram so it is actually meant to plug this hole:
https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-ft500-1982-c_model50099/partslist/0034.html#.XoWH34gzbIU
Might be worthwile to order some more parts with them because of the postal fees.

By the way if you are going to replace your exhaust studs. Order these, these are the correct length FT500 ones (XL500 ones are shorter)
https://www.cmsnl.com/search/?section=all&q=92900-060350B&tab=schematic

If any of you has the starter side of the FT500 open and could check for play on the starter gears that would be awesome!
I don't think that plug is for the tach? It looks like the plug for the compression release, which the FT doesn't have. I used the plug from an '82 XR500:
https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-xr500r-1982-c_model50091/plug-camshaft_12312428000/#.XodqP3JlC5g
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 03, 2020, 03:05:46 pm
That's strange, I think you might be right and as far as I can remember now I also ordered that XR one.
I do remember it not being in the FT parts list and looking exactly like this XR one.
Because I couldn't really remember anymore I looked up the invoice.
On my invoice it says 12316-473-000 as part number though...
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on April 05, 2020, 11:35:47 am
I recall a few posts on converting to a kick-starter. They then had a problem with the kicker & foot-peg interference. I don't recall ever reading about or seeing a solution.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 06, 2020, 05:12:00 am
@J6G1Z.
I recall that too.
I've seen some bodged up fixes but nothing very fancy.

I have been offered some of the parts needed for the kickstart conversion for a very reasonable price so I am really thinking about doing that.
The specific FT500 starter gears that broke are just completely unobtainable or people ask top money.
If I am going to do the conversion I will do a detailed write-up in the tech section including the search for a decent looking and fitting kickstarter.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on April 06, 2020, 10:03:08 am
Please do. It would be nice to have a functioning kicker as a back-up. Good luck.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: hellblom on April 08, 2020, 01:32:10 pm
Yes, please do!
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: hellblom on April 10, 2020, 01:07:56 pm
I got the tank on, next up is changing the seat and putting a hoop in the back. Going bratstyle.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 11, 2020, 03:48:49 pm
@Hellblom.
Looking good, really needs a smaller seat now ;)

I've bitten the bullit and I will do the kickstart conversion.
Ripped the engine out this morning and did a check if indeed there is a hole for the kickstart (better safe then sorry).

The engine is now upside down on a little workbench because I will be splitting the block by taking the bottom half of instead of the full head, cilinder, and then splitting from the top as per the manual.
I will keep making foto's of the process so let me know if there is a need/want for a write-up of how to split the engine upside down too ;)

Officially ordered my XL parts now, so what I have coming my way:
- Kickstart axle with all springs etc
- XL clutch cover, you can take the plug in the kickstart hole out of your FT cover but you would still miss the hole for the automatic decompression, as I want to have this system I just got the correct side cover and lever.
- XL cilinder head cover with decompression handle and spring. You could have your FT head cover machined or... just buy the piece
- XL decompression cable
- XL stator cover. I am going to see if I can fit the FT stator in this to really clean up the engine and loose the whole e-start part.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on April 11, 2020, 05:01:41 pm
I've owned a Honda XR400 (Bored to 440) & an XR600. They are not that hard to kick start once you learn how. Cycle the kicker slowly to bring the piston up on the compression stroke. I used the separate compression release lever to bump the piston just past TDC on the compression stroke. Allow the kicker to return to the top & then boot it. That is the only time I ever used the compression release.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 12, 2020, 10:35:39 am
I managed to split the engine today!
Write up on how to split it without removing the top-end is in the tech section.
It was not that hard at all.
One downside was that one of the axial set rings for the main bearing of the crankshaft broke... one small part ended up falling down the camchain tunnel towards the head. Ill get that bastard later.

I also added a picture from before splitting the engine, if you look through the hole where the sump normally is you can perfectly see the hole where the kickstart axle will come trough, you can also see the hole where the return spring retainer will protrude. I think it might actually be possible to fit a kickstart axle to a FT without splitting the cases.
You would have to take the clutch of though as you need the room to access the bolt hole for the return spring retainer.
To me knowing how easy this was, it almost seems like taking the clutch of is more effort than just splitting the cases :D
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: hellblom on April 14, 2020, 01:11:22 am
Many many thanks that you are sharing your efforts with us. I will probably do this work in a couple of years and your pictures and thoughts will help.

For me it is time to change the seat this week, working from home has it's advantages.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: hellblom on April 14, 2020, 01:12:30 pm
About how much did the parts cost for the kickstart? And what parts did you order?
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 14, 2020, 01:50:29 pm
I got everything second hand.
The kickstart axle with all springs, the cilinderheadcover with decompression lever, the right engine case with automatic decompression lever, decompression cable and left engine cover was a total of 125 euros. Think I did get a pretty solid deal on it.
I still have to buy a new stator and some small bits so it will cost me quite a bit in the end.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 17, 2020, 05:22:23 am
Good news, I managed to get a second hand stator for a reasonable price so eventually she will run again!
On the down side, DHL has lost my package containing the kickstart axle, both side covers and the cilinder head cover....

Other packages should be arriving today so I will have some stuff to do this weekend but I do hope they will find my big package as these parts where hard to find.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 17, 2020, 11:24:42 am
Got delivery of my first parts today.
I got:
- All the engine seals for the kickstart construction and the big seal that goes over the drive shaft. This will leak eventually so I figured it's better to change it now I have the engine open anyway (plus the whole set was a good deal).
- A new (to me) stator, I do need to fix the neutral wire and I hope it will work, it had been lying on a shelf of the guy I bought it from for quite some time.
- Decompression lever and spring for a XL-R so I can fit a manual decompression lever next to the automatic one.
- Set ring for the crankshaft bearing.
- Oilfilters as I really want to replace the one that is in there because it might be filled with metal shavings of the broken teeth (although it is only 50 kilometers old)

The big box from DHL is still missing though..
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: hellblom on April 17, 2020, 12:54:46 pm
Nice!
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 20, 2020, 02:47:55 am
Changed the output shaft seal yesterday.
Description can be found in the splitting the engine cases topic in the tech section.
Also repaired the neutral wire for my new stator so everything is ready to go, just waiting for DHL to find the rest of my parts.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on April 24, 2020, 03:27:02 am
DHL officially lost the package with the kickstart axle, both side covers and the cilinder head cover.
Very unfortunate as they will only refund 3,40 euro per kg which ofcourse is nothing compared to the value.
The seller officially is responsible but as this was a private person and not a webshop getting my money back or replacement parts is going to take a while if I will get it at all.
Really bums me out, had a lot of time to work on the bike these days and was really looking forward to it.
Project is not halted though, I'm going to get my head cover machined to accept the decompression lever and remove the plug in the clutch cover for the kickstart axle. I still have to source a new kickstart axle and will not have the automatic decompression for now though.
Will keep you posted on progress.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on May 02, 2020, 08:33:29 am
Got the shaft with all the bits needed and installed everything into the bottom casing.
Thankfully I have an expert mechanic (meCatnic) who checked if I fitted everything correctly.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on May 03, 2020, 08:30:07 am
Was able to close the engine today. It is quite fiddly but eventually I got it done.
I also took the cylinder head cover off to have it machined for the decompression release and I found the little piece of the setting ring that went missing some time ago!
Removed the spark plug to make sure there was no compression and gently checked if the kickstart worked.
Conclusion; Succes!

Unfortunately the wrecker where I bought my clutch cover send me the wrong one (XL500S with the smaller kickstart hole). Next to that I discovered that I can never make a XL500R stator cover work. There is simply no room in the cover to mount the FT500 stator.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on May 13, 2020, 02:43:32 am
Made some blocking plates to get rid of the pinion gear and the starter motor.

Also applied some paint stripper to the covers to get them completely clean.
At first my covers started to look like the painting starry night by Van Gogh but eventually the silver paint stripped of completely.
The black original Honda paint won't come off though.
I'm now looking for a paint that looks a lot like blank cast aluminium. Might go for VHT engine enamel although that looks to be a bit too shiny. Any thoughts on what product works best and looks most like aluminium?

regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on May 13, 2020, 02:45:44 am
I was also able to pick up some parts for next to nothing so I couldn't resist...
CBR Hurricane wheels, forks, brakes etc. Everything you need for the conversion.
I am now looking to get me another FT to put them in....
If I find one I'll open up a new project page :D
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on May 16, 2020, 05:43:16 am
Spray painted the side covers in heat resistant paint today.
Had to harden the paint by putting the covers in the oven but damn they look nice now.
This paint (Maston) has a matt finish instead of the regular more gloss finish. I like it a lot, really looks like blasted Aluminium. It even has a bit of texture to it.

Still have to get my cylinder head cover machined but when that is done I can start reassembling again!
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: hellblom on May 17, 2020, 11:05:41 am
Wow, extremely nice!
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on May 31, 2020, 02:38:13 am
I've been quite busy.
I had the cylinder head cover machined to accept the decompression lever. Was pretty expensive but it was very nicely done.
I also spray painted the cover with the same paint I used for the clutch and stator cover, really happy with the result.

Haven't fully torqued the cover down yet as I am thinking about replacing the inlet rocker (this has some wear marks).

I also mounted the new second hand stator and cleaned up the previously damaged flywheel.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on May 31, 2020, 02:39:51 am
After that I put the engine back in the frame to check for clearence with the kickstart pedal.
Always nice to see the bike assembled again.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on May 31, 2020, 02:44:40 am
As expected the kickstart does hit some of the standard FT parts.
If mounted correctly it hits the frame when folded in (little bit of rubber can protect the frame there).
It hits the brake pedal when you kick down on the kickstart and most importantly it hits the footpeg mounts.

With the footpeg and brake removed the bike kicks over very nicely so happy with that. If I clean up the carb and torque the head cover down I'm pretty confident I could start the bike.

For the footpeg issue I am looking to go for some rearsets (or bring a Hex-key with me wherever I go to reassemble the footpeg after starting  ;)). Will keep you posted.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: triguyracer on May 31, 2020, 02:36:16 pm
You can move your pegs a bit by making new mounting plates, I made mine by tracing on a a piece or cardboard the outline of the stock ones that are somewhat triangle in shape and then making it out of alloy plate to get rid of the weight of the stock heavy castings and mounted them in the stock place, just needed to make a couple of spacers between the plate and frame, you could even use washers lol, you would have some room to move the foot peg to diff places depending on the size of the alloy plate you use ,I was just looking for simple ways to get rid of weight ,but you could also do the same and be able to move the pegs around a bit, I used simple alloy cheap folding foot pegs, cost was about 20 bucks and some elbow grease . Might help you in not having to spend a bunch on rearsets   
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on June 02, 2020, 04:45:27 am
I was thinking of doing something similar too.
I still have some alloy plate laying around that I can experiment with, only downside is that I will also have to change the brake pedal which is a bit harder to relocate.
That or adapt some old (cheap) rearsets from a different bike.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: scottly on June 04, 2020, 02:38:00 pm
Look at the footpeg mount for the XR/XL models; IIRC, it was a heavy steel piece that went straight forward, then out away from the motor, then back a bit, allowing the kick lever to pass between the peg and the motor.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on June 05, 2020, 04:02:09 am
Have one coming this way to test, problem with the XR/XL mount is the position on the frame is different and the brake leaver is completely different (FT hydraulic disk brake vs XL/XR rod operated drum brake)
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on June 05, 2020, 09:20:10 am
Got some stuff in the mail today.
Better rockers and camshaft, will install these instead of my more worn original ones.

Some other parts to try and solve the footpeg problem.
XR500R brake pedal, tried to see what I could do with this but conclusion is this will never fit. The way it is bend is not working and the actuation of the brake is also completely different.
XR500S Footpeg and brake pedal.
Tried to fit the XL500S parts but it will be very hard to use them.
I might be able to use the footpeg holder but that would move the footpeg quite a lot forward and down, even further reducing the ground clearance and I don't have a solution for the brake pedal yet.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on June 05, 2020, 03:17:51 pm
As expected the kickstart does hit some of the standard FT parts.

Here are some pics of a tubular kicker that was fabricated for an RD project. Might provide some ideas.

Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on June 05, 2020, 03:18:44 pm
Couple more.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on June 10, 2020, 09:47:14 am
Ooooohhhh YEaaahhh.
It took a total of 4 kicks and there she roars!!!

https://youtu.be/WffnD3540Wo

Really happy that she starts so easily.
There is a slight tapping sound from the cilinder head so will have to check the valve clearance apart from that she seems to run very smooth!
Still need to figure out the footpeg situation but at least the bike starts again.
The new stator works like a charm, really have a very nice and strong spark.
Funny to be able to start the bike without a battery in it.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: J6G1Z on June 10, 2020, 10:22:10 am
I once owned an XR400 & a XR600. They both had a small compression release lever on the handlebars. This was my starting procedure. I would slowly move the kicker through its range of motion until the engine began the compression stroke. I would use the compression release to allow me to rotate the engine to just past peak compression. Then I would kick it. Be careful with those tennis shoes. If the engine kicks back you might end up limping for a few days. Glad to see that it works.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: murdo on June 11, 2020, 04:30:42 am
I see you have the decompression cable cable working so surprised to see it kick back.
Title: Re: Dutch FT project
Post by: FT500R on August 03, 2020, 04:39:39 am
Turns out the valve clearance was way off.
I set it with the engine on the bench but apparently I've set it incorrectly.
Re-adjusted it yesterday and the bike runs really good now!

Was also able to properly adjust the decompression now and there is zero kick back.