FT500 Ascot Starter Problems....

[J6G1Z]

The biggest weak link on our FT Ascots is supposed to be the Starter System. So far, I have been fortunate enough to not have to tear into one. I'm sure that my day is coming though. Supposedly having a strong battery, plus a bike that is kept in a good state of tune & starts easily, will go a long way to preventing any starter problems.

Here is a link to the FT500 Ascot Yahoo Users Group "FILES" section on the Ascot starting system. It is the most complete & detailed information source that I am aware of on the Ascot starter.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/honda-ascot/files/Starter%20Issues

Good luck & don't grind on your starter for long periods.
J.

[johnnymot1]

Once again, thank you for posting this. As a newbie owner of several FT500s I just bought, out of the 3 that "run" the two I have cranked sound horrific, with the "clunk" and the "whirrrrr" when the gears are not engaging......Fingers crossed on the third bike, which appears to look in the best shape, but she has been sitting, and I'm not ready to just try to fire it up without some due pre-start inspections to be sure it's got proper lubrication after sitting awhile.....

On the two I have started, I did fully charge both batteries, and cleaned the connection ends, including replacing a "home made" battery cable with a stock cable that was the proper gauge to flow the proper amps .....

Both of these starters are crying for some immediate attention by the way they sound......I'll post pics and comments as I start to diagnose and attempt to uh, repair them I hope.....I have read about where someone used a "needle roller bearing" on the starter pinion to improve it....Without having looked or gotten into them to see exactly what they meant (their comment was vague) has anyone  else gone this route?

[J6G1Z]

Check out the FILE titled "solenoid asmbly maint.pdf". I think this is the problem with your starter.

I have not been inside the starter assembly yet, but from what I've read, the solenoid is usually dirty & binds up.

Good luck
J.

[J6G1Z]

 

[J6G1Z]

 

[AndreLindholm]

HI, first of all i would like to thank for the great forum and for all the information here, but I  have a problem i can't seem to find any answer to.

When i try to start my Ft with the starter its like the engine only cranks over once before the starter lets go and spinns free. So sometimes it works, and the engine do ignite and fires right up. But most of the time it doesn't. And I'm not able to keep cranking the engine by holding the start button in, because it disengages after one crank. So far I have been able to rollstart it successfully, and it runs good when i get it running.

So what do you guys think could be the problem that causes the starter engine to disengage to early?

[Lefty]

 Check your connections at the relay, right off the positive battery terminal. Starter brushes, also may be worn out, & are a pretty easy fix, check them also.
 I'd most definitely take the starter housing off also & see what's going on in there.A weak return spring? It's been a while since I did mine. It's real easy to see what's doing what in there, once you get it apart. I took mine apart to & lube/clean everything up( I had no issue with mine) & it's pretty easy to service. good luck & let us know what you find

[AndreLindholm]

Thanks for the answer, today I took a closer look at my starter engine, and motor it self seems to be working as i should.
So I'm thinking that might be somewhere in the engage parts. I notice the flywheel is a bit worn down, (see the image below) do you guys think that might be the problem? If not, any other ideas what it could be? maybe the return spring as Lefty said?


Images of the Flywheel
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtvatox7kyv4dmi/Photo%202014-07-10%2012%2013%2023.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtvatox7kyv4dmi/Photo%202014-07-10%2012%2013%2023.jpg

[J6G1Z]

I have been fortunate enough that my starter hasn't givin me any problems, yet. (knock on wood)

I think I would look at the solenoid assembly. Disassemble it as described in the article, clean, polish & lube, then re-assemble & see if that doesn't take care of the problem.

Good luck
J.

[AndreLindholm]

I have been fortunate enough that my starter hasn't givin me any problems, yet. (knock on wood)

I think I would look at the solenoid assembly. Disassemble it as described in the article, clean, polish & lube, then re-assemble & see if that doesn't take care of the problem.

Good luck
J.

Actually I have already tried that, didn't solve the problem.
What do you think of the wear on the Flywheel, is that normal?

/A

[J6G1Z]

Well, I've never been inside mine yet so cannot comment upon the condition of the parts in the picture. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will jump in.

Here is the picture.

J.

[AndreLindholm]

Well, I've never been inside mine yet so cannot comment upon the condition of the parts in the picture. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will jump in.

Here is the picture.

J.

I saw now that i linked to the same image twice, should be this one as well:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i71uq8cvx0zie1a/Photo%202014-07-10%2011%2038%2011.jpg

[J6G1Z]

You mean this one? 

J.

[scottly]

HI, first of all i would like to thank for the great forum and for all the information here, but I  have a problem i can't seem to find any answer to.

When i try to start my Ft with the starter its like the engine only cranks over once before the starter lets go and spinns free. So sometimes it works, and the engine do ignite and fires right up. But most of the time it doesn't. And I'm not able to keep cranking the engine by holding the start button in, because it disengages after one crank. So far I have been able to rollstart it successfully, and it runs good when i get it running.

So what do you guys think could be the problem that causes the starter engine to disengage to early?

It is the solenoid mechanism that locks the pinion in engagement with the ring gear with the starter button pressed. The spring unlocks the pinion when the starter button is released, so it would cause the starter pinion to stay engaged if it were broken or unhooked.
I don't really think the wear on the gears is related to this issue, but I do see some odd looking marks on the flywheel, below the teeth? Perhaps it is a reflection?
My bike will sometimes do the one crank thing maybe once or twice before catching hold, and the solenoid mechanism seems to be free. I have noticed that my starter button sometimes needs more than one push to activate, and I suspect this may be related. 

[wrk2ride_ride2wrk]

HI, first of all i would like to thank for the great forum and for all the information here, but I  have a problem i can't seem to find any answer to.

When i try to start my Ft with the starter its like the engine only cranks over once before the starter lets go and spinns free. So sometimes it works, and the engine do ignite and fires right up. But most of the time it doesn't. And I'm not able to keep cranking the engine by holding the start button in, because it disengages after one crank. So far I have been able to rollstart it successfully, and it runs good when i get it running.

So what do you guys think could be the problem that causes the starter engine to disengage to early?

It is the solenoid mechanism that locks the pinion in engagement with the ring gear with the starter button pressed. The spring unlocks the pinion when the starter button is released, so it would cause the starter pinion to stay engaged if it were broken or unhooked.
I don't really think the wear on the gears is related to this issue, but I do see some odd looking marks on the flywheel, below the teeth? Perhaps it is a reflection?
My bike will sometimes do the one crank thing maybe once or twice before catching hold, and the solenoid mechanism seems to be free. I have noticed that my starter button sometimes needs more than one push to activate, and I suspect this may be related.

Hello fellows, well I had my first non-startup tonight of my rebuilt engine.

Exactly the symptoms as AndreLindholm discribes.
Late and a bit nackered, so I think tomorrow I'll swap out a spare solenoid I have, if the same.. I'll bump start to get it going. Then address the starter issue.

AndreLindholm did you resolve your starter? cheers

Good news. You know how these things play on your mind... unleft... So just went out took the plug out, gas off, cranked over good, no disengagement, plug a little wet,  good spark. Put a little mozzy spray in the pot. plug in,  full choke...3rd crank ..and she hummed up.

I guess the engine was pretty tight, and it just needed a bit of wind over first.

[AndreLindholm]

HI, first of all i would like to thank for the great forum and for all the information here, but I  have a problem i can't seem to find any answer to.

When i try to start my Ft with the starter its like the engine only cranks over once before the starter lets go and spinns free. So sometimes it works, and the engine do ignite and fires right up. But most of the time it doesn't. And I'm not able to keep cranking the engine by holding the start button in, because it disengages after one crank. So far I have been able to rollstart it successfully, and it runs good when i get it running.

So what do you guys think could be the problem that causes the starter engine to disengage to early?

It is the solenoid mechanism that locks the pinion in engagement with the ring gear with the starter button pressed. The spring unlocks the pinion when the starter button is released, so it would cause the starter pinion to stay engaged if it were broken or unhooked.
I don't really think the wear on the gears is related to this issue, but I do see some odd looking marks on the flywheel, below the teeth? Perhaps it is a reflection?
My bike will sometimes do the one crank thing maybe once or twice before catching hold, and the solenoid mechanism seems to be free. I have noticed that my starter button sometimes needs more than one push to activate, and I suspect this may be related.

Hello fellows, well I had my first non-startup tonight of my rebuilt engine.

Exactly the symptoms as AndreLindholm discribes.
Late and a bit nackered, so I think tomorrow I'll swap out a spare solenoid I have, if the same.. I'll bump start to get it going. Then address the starter issue.

AndreLindholm did you resolve your starter? cheers

Good news. You know how these things play on your mind... unleft... So just went out took the plug out, gas off, cranked over good, no disengagement, plug a little wet,  good spark. Put a little mozzy spray in the pot. plug in,  full choke...3rd crank ..and she hummed up.

I guess the engine was pretty tight, and it just needed a bit of wind over first.

I overhauled my starter so now it seems to be working as it should. And like you describe, when the plug i removed it doesn't disengage but with the plug in it still lets go as soon as the compression makes the engine cranks over.  is that normal? Maybe the solenoid need to be changed? I have clean and lubed it. 
But I pointed my attention to my carb. Because it seems that the times that it is really hard to start it the plug stays dry. So i tried removing the plug and crank it over until I smell som gasoline, then back with the plug and starts up on the first och second try. So i have sent my carb to Carb specialized shop that will diagnoise it and see if all is right. So far i have always been able to bumpstart it, but it needs a few revolution before it starts.

So I think I'm getting closer to solving it but I'm not quite there yet.

/A 

[Donlukas]

Just took my solenoid apart.

I wasn't the first.

Missing thrust washer and spring not hooked up.

It started sometimes without these parts,, should fire right up after I find a washer and clean these parts.

[J6G1Z]

Hey Donlukas,

 Welcome to the forum. I'm not able to help you with this question, but you might find some more information here: http://ascot500.com/index.php?topic=427.0  Check with forum member "johnnymot1" as I think that he just went through this.

Good luck
J.