Author Topic: Lucas Safeguard™ Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers...  (Read 5720 times)

J6G1Z

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Lucas Safeguard™ Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers...
« on: October 09, 2013, 07:44:24 am »
Now that I no longer can find straight Gasoline without 10% Ethanol added I have started using this product from Lucas.
http://lucasoil.com/products/fuel-treatments/safeguard-ethanol-fuel-conditioner-with-stabilizers  Safeguard™ Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers

I always run Premium fuel in my Air Cooled engines to help prevent pre-ignition/detonation & add a dash of two-stroke pre-mix oil to prevent rust from forming. Now I also add the Lucas additive. I would much rather just purchase a quality fuel without alcohol added, but no longer have that option. I have used Lucas products in my diesel pick-up truck for several years & have been pleased with the results.

Lucas now has a complete Cycle Division with just about every lubricating type of product you could ask for.
http://lucasoil.com/products

Here is a link to assist you in locating non ethanol gasoline in your area.
http://www.buyrealgas.com

Good luck
J.

EDIT: Replaced dead links.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 05:24:53 am by J6G1Z »

Dougie

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Re: Lucas Safeguard™ Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers...
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2013, 04:34:48 am »
Interesting as one of my bikes has a nylon tank and in the UK they are about to increase the Ethanol content.

What is the base of the Lucas product?

If it's oil would the 'two stroke' trick not be sufficient?

If this is a fix the oil companies should be adding it to their fuel, not us!

Create a problem then sell us a 'solution' bloody capitalists.

J6G1Z

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Re: Lucas Safeguard™ Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers...
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2013, 11:06:13 am »
Interesting as one of my bikes has a nylon tank and in the UK they are about to increase the Ethanol content.

What is the base of the Lucas product?

If it's oil would the 'two stroke' trick not be sufficient?

If this is a fix the oil companies should be adding it to their fuel, not us!

Create a problem then sell us a 'solution' bloody capitalists.

I'm not sure what the Lucas additive is made of. It is almost water thin though & looks about like mouthwash. It sure is flying off the shelf at the local bike shop.

J.

Dougie

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Re: Lucas Safeguard™ Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers...
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2013, 02:57:00 pm »
Sounds like a moneyspinner right enough.

How many Lucas shares can I get for a 'tenner'?

cdntfindanAscot

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Re: Lucas Safeguard™ Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers...
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2013, 03:03:22 pm »
 I had never even thought about what petrol goes in my vehicles, thinking petrol is petrol! but after reading the earlier posts I did a little research and found the following which may be of interest to others, certainly opened my eyes.
Cheers J for bringing the subject up and Dougie for highlighting the fact that it affects us on this side of the pond too (always thought ethel was a US thing  :-[ )

The following report gives a more detailed picture of the likely effects of the use of ethanol-petrol blend fuel.
From the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs newsletters numbers. 3 & 5 - 2008.

Aspects of the use of petrol containing ethanol - Based on a recently published public domain document, CONCAWE Report number 3/08

Fuel volatility
Blending small amounts of ethanol (up to 5%) into petrol does produce a measurable increase in volatility. Oil companies must ensure that fuel volatility meets specified limits (EN 228) so petrol containing ethanol will be adjusted to this specification. However, if fuel containing ethanol is mixed in the vehicle tank with purely hydrocarbon fuel an increase in the volatility of the blend in the tank can result. This may produce unwelcome symptoms of poor hot starting, erratic running including running too rich, or too lean, associated with excessive fuel volatility. The FBHVC caters for a wide range of vehicle ages, and it is highly probable that some will be less able to cope with an unintended increase in fuel volatility, and also some time-related deterioration in performance of cooling systems.  Unfortunately, it seems that not all fuel containing up to 5% ethanol is labelled as such, so the scenario of mixing two types of fuel in the vehicle tank is a realistic one, with a significant probability that driving difficulties may result. Volatility related problems have been discussed before, and there are a number of often fairly simple remedies.

Octane quality

The addition of 5% ethanol increases petrol octane quality by about one octane number.  For this reason high octane unleaded petrol (nominally 98 Research Octane Number or RON) is more likely to contain ethanol than the normal 95 RON standard or ‘Premium’ product.  Refiners do not like giving quality away, so if ethanol is added to the standard product, the blend may be adjusted so that octane quality remains at 95 RON.  Those owners of high performance cars originally requiring high octane five star petrol are more likely to buy 98 RON unleaded, so they are more likely to encounter blends containing ethanol.  However, given the high octane quality of ethanol, and the EU-driven enthusiasm for bio-fuel inclusion, use of ethanol in the normal 95 RON unleaded petrol cannot be ruled out.  Exposure of the majority of historic vehicle owners to blends containing ethanol is increasingly likely as time goes on.

Effects on fuel system metals

Briefly, the presence of ethanol in petrol increases the risk of corrosion of metallic fuel system materials.  This difficulty is recognised from long experience, and effective corrosion inhibitors have been developed.  Responsible fuel retailers should employ a suitable additive to protect their customers’ treasured possessions, but this may not always be the case.  CONCAWE Report 3/08 gives a list of metals not recommended for use with petrol containing ethanol which reads like a metal who’s who for vintage and classic vehicles, i.e.  zinc, brass, copper, lead-coated steel.  On this basis, the type of vehicle favoured by those represented by the FBHVC could have problems in the petrol tank, fuel pipe, carburettor and most fittings.  Modern vehicles have tended to maximise the use of engineering plastics, so will have less of a problem.  However, to avoid sounding too gloomy, it should be remembered that corrosion inhibitor additives are usually very effective in providing protection, and if the products used by the fuel retailers do not perform, a low cost after-market product may well become available for owners of vulnerable vehicles to use. 
   

 

Effects on seals, plastics and other materials
Other no-no materials mentioned by Report 3/08 are shellac, cork, nylon and GRP materials, plus various elastomer and seal materials.  Recommended materials include Viton, Fluorosilicone, neoprene and Buna-N for hoses and gaskets (but neither of these for seals).  Teflon tape is recommended in preference to alcohol based pipe and thread sealing materials.  Tank lining materials used to prevent small leaks in tanks are also in the not-recommended category for ethanol fuels.  This is consistent with a report received by the FBHVC this summer from one owner who had treated his tank with a proprietary sealing product, after which fuel containing ethanol had been used, resulting in a proverbial gooey mess.  The scale of the problem in this case led to the need to strip the fuel system.  It is not currently known whether tank sealant manufacturers are able to supply products compatible with fuels containing ethanol, but their availability would certainly be an advantage.  If such products are not available, their use is likely to decline and rather more traditional methods of tank repair, or even re-manufacture, may become a growth industry.

Effect on gums, sediments etc.

Over time all fuel handling systems tend to accumulate deposits of one kind or another in crevices and corners.  Sediments, gums, rust, lacquer and other materials fall into this category, and generally the older the fuel system the more of such material there will be.  Unfortunately fuels containing ethanol tend to loosen these deposits which then move on to plague the driver with mysterious fuel starvation problems.  There have been a number of references to such problems recently, including in cars used for racing, which arguably may be more likely to be using fuel containing ethanol through the high octane route.  Irritating though this problem must be, there is arguably a finite amount of such material in fuel systems, and thus after a certain time, which will be shortened by thorough cleaning, further use of ethanol fuels will not dislodge more sediment to block filters or jets, so hopefully this problem will fade with time.

Fire safety

Fuels containing ethanol at low levels (5-10%) behave very similarly to those not containing ethanol when burning, so safety considerations and fire-fighting techniques will be similar.  However, high ethanol content fuels have been shown to be capable of de-stabilising or collapsing foams used to fight fuel fires.  Also, pure ethanol burns with no visible flame so making fire fighting more difficult.  Alcohol resistant fire fighting foams should be used with fires in fuel containing more than 10% ethanol, but given the difficulty of knowing what sort of fuel blend is in use in certain older racing vehicles, this type of foam would be a wise choice for all racing applications.
In conclusion, there are a number of unfortunate or negative aspects to the use in older vehicles, of fuel containing even 5% ethanol.  These can be summarised as: an increased tendency to vapour lock, fuel system corrosion and random fuel starvation events from dislodged deposits.  These potential problems in general would support the view ‘if in doubt avoid’.  Unfortunately it seems increasingly clear that it will become harder and harder to do this, so that perhaps inevitably such fuels will become just another part of the picture of using a historic vehicle in today’s world.  Experience is being gained all the time, so maybe a clearer picture will emerge with use.  Historic vehicle owners should be aware of potential pitfalls, as they may be able to take precautions, or may more easily find a suitable remedy for problems which do occur.


Dougie

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Re: Lucas Safeguard™ Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers...
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2013, 10:24:53 am »
That's a great summary of the problems associated with Ethanol.

There was a fuller report commissioned by the Department of Transport that I found to dispel naysayers that there was no problems with Ethanol.

Not sure but I think Germany was having second thoughts about the introduction of E10 from the existing E5.

J6G1Z

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Re: Lucas Safeguard™ Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers...
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2013, 01:19:10 pm »
I think the fiberglass boat guys were the first to have problems with the fuel eating up the fiberglass fuel tanks & clogging up their fuel systems.

It's not good & it will most likely become worse.

J.

J6G1Z

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Re: Lucas Safeguard™ Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers...
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2014, 08:17:46 am »
Allthough this article is Boating related, it does provide several good points & tips.

Be forewarned, because it’s coming to a gasoline service station near you, and it will have an enormous impact on your boating recreation, fishing, and most assuredly your wallet.

Just when you believe government regulations can’t get any more bizarre, intrusive, or anti-business, along comes the EPA opening the way for E15 gasoline.

Last fall EPA approved for national sale gasoline containing up to 15 percent ethanol, which up until now had been limited to 10 percent ethanol, or E-10. E15 has 50 percent more alcohol than E10, and E10 has been devastating throughout the outboard marine industry since it hit the market place, making the outlook for E15 very ominous indeed.

On almost every level ethanol-added gasoline has been devastating for marine use. Ethanol is a solvent, according to outboard engine mechanics, and it dissolves seals, gaskets, hoses and even fiberglass boat fuel tanks. It scours gunk from fuel tank walls and it all ends up clogging fuel lines, carburetors and fuel injectors, which results in poor engine performance, stalling, loss of power, and eventually big bucks spent at a repair shop.

Although all major manufacturers of outboard motors reports their engines run just fine on E10 fuel (E15 support is doubtful, and, in fact, may void warrantees), spokespersons for those same companies know that in the real world of fishing and boating, ethanol-added fuel has been a disaster.

Here’s why ethanol contributes to boat fuel system problems, according to a marine retail bulletin:

•Ethanol is hygroscopic, meaning it has a strong attraction to moisture.
•Ethanol increases the amount of water accumulating in fuel tanks.
•Ethanol produces less energy (BTUs) than an equivalent unit of gasoline.
•Ethanol fuel’s usable life span may be less than the normal length of off-season boat storage.
One of the biggest reasons why ethanol fuel and boats don’t go together is that ethanol has the unhappy ability to attract water. And as almost everyone knows, water in gas engines is a serious problem. To help stem that flow into your outboard, be sure to have a high-quality (25-micron minimum) marine fuel-water separator (filter) installed in the gas line, and check it and replace it often. This filter prevents not only water from getting to the engine, but also debris that may result from ethanol degrading a boat fuel tank and gas lines.

“When checking a boat fuel-water separator, pour the gas out of it into a clear container and see if there is water and/or debris in it,” says Danny Patrick, a marine dealer and boating authority in Jacksonville, Florida. “If the fuel you pour out of the separator is milky or cloudy, you’ve got a problem. Completely draining gas from a tank may be necessary. Sometimes an entire fuel line system must be changed. Fiberglass tanks are a real problem with ethanol, and should be replaced with metal tanks.

“Outboard fuel injectors commonly foul, and must be replaced if contaminated with water or debris from ethanol fuel.

“Once you have an ethanol-fuel problem in a motor or boat, it can be very difficult solving it for good. It’s very common during the warm-weather fishing season to spend many weeks getting a boat and motor back to running to peak efficiency once ethanol problems have occurred.”

Regular changing of a fuel separator is recommended by Patrick and by many outboard companies. Installing a new separator for every 50 hours of running time is a good idea; more often if you have on-going problems.



Another recommended procedure to thwart the wrath of ethanol-laced fuel is to regularly use a commercial fuel additive designed specifically for ethanol. Many outboard companies produce such additives. Mercury offers “Marine Dri-fuel” and “Marine Fuel System Treatment and Stabilizer.” Star Brite’s “StarTron Enzyme Fuel Treatment,” and Sta-Bil’s “Ethanol Treatment” also are among industry leaders.

Experts recommend keeping boat fuel tanks completely full of gas at all times. This reduces the air gap at the top of a tank, so there is less chance for water condensation to form and contaminate fuel. Full tanks are especially important during hot weather, particularly in the South.

Because ethanol fuel degrades rapidly, it’s not a good idea to leave it in a motor tank for long duration, which in the real outboard world is common even during the height of the fishing and boating season. For winter storage, draining a fuel tank is worthwhile.

More than just a maritime menace
Recently ethanol fuel has been getting bad press, at least on the internet, for destroying small engines of the type used for lawn and garden maintenance. So ethanol is taking an even bigger toll than on just outboard motors.

The American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research states, “Contrary to popular belief, ethanol fuel will do little or nothing to increase our energy security or stabilize fuel prices. Instead, it will increase greenhouse gas emissions, local air pollutant emissions, fresh water scarcity, water pollution, land and ecosystem consumption and food prices.”

Government agencies pressing ethanol use have recognized the problem the fuel has in outboards and RVs (not cars, so far), so in some places regular old gasoline without ethanol is available. Some marinas sell it, and while it’s about $1 more per gallon, it’s cost effective to use in order to avoid ethanol-fuel headaches. But non-ethanol fuel can be difficult to locate, especially if you have a trailered boat with a built-in fuel tank, since most standard service stations do not offer non-ethanol fuel — only marinas typically offer it, and usually only at the waterfront.

Even environmentalists are having grave doubts about ethanol fuel, which is touted in some political and environmental circles as a “conservation” procedure. Yet producing a gallon of ethanol from corn requires about 35 gallons of water during refining. Gasoline requires only 1.25 gallons of water.

Agri-businesses, ethanol refiners, and their political allies tout the value of this “bio-fuel” for America’s “green” and environmental well-being. However, hundreds of thousands of acres of land throughout America that had been in the “Conservation Reserve Program” (CRP) are now being put under the plow for growing corn, since farmers can make more from ethanol production than leaving land idle in CRP. Land planted in CRP wild grassland habitats for years have been a boom to wild game like pheasants, quail, rabbits, as well as song birds, deer, and a host of other species. But that is changing fast, and this greatly reduced prime wildlife habitat has caused severe declines in game, non-game, and bird populations in many regions.

And in case you haven’t noticed, chicken, pork and beef prices have jumped significantly in recent times. People in the know say that’s so because surplus corn for chicken, hog and cattle feed isn’t as cheap as it once was, since there’s no excess due to ethanol production.

Although E15 is aimed primarily at newer automobiles, and fuel containing the additive will be clearly marked at service stations (says the EPA), confusion about the new product is sure to arise, according to many marine industry insiders.

Engine manufacturer Mercury Marine says it’s inevitable that higher ethanol blends mistakenly will find their way into older cars and boats. “We join other industry groups in the belief that the level of testing performed to support the EPA decision was inadequate and that the processes designed to prevent the unintended use of this [E15] fuel blend in non-highway applications or older vehicles are inadequate,” Mercury says.

“Fuel containing higher proportions of ethanol is not compatible with many fuel system and engine components and, if mistakenly used, will cause irreversible damage … that will lead to engine failure and potential safety risks,” the company adds.

Posted June 25, 2013 in Fishing by Bob McNally



   

J6G1Z

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Re: Lucas Safeguard™ Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers...
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2014, 08:22:44 am »
Here is a link to assist you in locating ethanol free gasoline in your area.
http://ascot500.com/index.php?topic=247.0

Good luck
J.