Race tech springs and emulators vs progressive springs for FT500 front shocks

[johnnymot1]

I may have missed this in my search, but which is the preference?  I'm a larger guy (230lbs), and some say the progressives can still be a bit "mushy".....At first glance the Race Tech emulators and a set of their .95kgm forks seem to be the set up.

Any opinions on the pros and cons of each fork spring combo?

Right now I'm giving up on my dream of finding a CBR hurricane or Honda hawk front end and rebuilding my stock set of forks.

[J6G1Z]

Wish I could help you better with your questions, but I went with the Hurricane front end.

I was able to find a guy parting out a 600cc Hurricane by running a "Wanted" ad on Craigslist.

If you find a complete first generation bike for $500 or so, grab it. You can use the front end, brakes, plus the front & rear wheels. Then sell the Hurricane engine, frame, etc. Take a look at the brake disks & measure how thick they are. Those are the hard or expensive parts to replace.

Good luck with the rest of your question.

J.

[johnnymot1]

The hurricane front end (rear wheel too) is still my first choice, but I've had no luck running a want ad on CL and even on a state .com site that is full of motorcycles and parts. Murphy's law will have it that if I do buy the race tech springs and emulators, then one will show up!

Just getting impatient, and don't want the forks to hold up my build.  How much of an improvement are the hurricane forks offering?

[J6G1Z]

Well, I have no idea what a tricked out Ascot front end feels like, but the Hurricane swap with the 17" wheels front & rear completely change the bike. It's still a very fun bike to ride, just more so. You have to be careful of speed-bumps though, as the ground clearance is limited. I really like the lowered front end.

Now if I had a real cherry, low mile, stock Ascot, I would not do the Hurricane swap. The bike that I built had been lightly dumped before.

I can recommend Hagon shocks for the rear no matter which way you go.

Good luck
J.

[johnnymot1]

Thanks, and thus my allure and waiting to see if I can find a nice CBR donor bike. I may have to expand my horizons and travel further to find one. Handling and ride is definitley what I'm going for on this "cafe/tracker" build.

Seems like every cafe being built these days is getting a GSXR front end adapted to it too. I'm interested to see how they are doing that to all of the various bikes and the degree of expertise and fabricating involved.

All of my FT's are less than pristine and I've been bitten by the cafe' bug as well, so hopefully I can do a few different tasteful builds that are fun. I'm still on the hunt for the elusive honda hawk front end as well.

I like the fact that the hurricane fork lowers the front end and is a bit bigger diameter tube in addition to the dual discs and 17" wheel too.

[J6G1Z]

Actually the first generation Hurricane forks are the same diameter as the Ascot forks. That is the reason that they are so desirable. They are the same diameter & spacing as the Ascot, allowing you to slide the new front end into the original Ascot triple clamps. I once heard that the tubing wall thickness was thicker on the Hurricane forks, but who knows.

I think the main performance improvement is the 17" lightweight wheels on each end. The OEM Ascot wheels are fairly heavy. Seventeen inch wheels & a 520 chain conversion remove a lot of rotating weight from our drivetrain.

J.

[johnnymot1]

Just to veriy on the CBR swap as well.....That's the CBR600 and not the 1000 correct?  I've gotten one response to my "wanted" ad for a CBR donor bike, but it's an offer for a 1987 CBR 1000 front end. I'm really tyring to hold out and find my "dream" CBR donor bike.....I know it can happen just as I found my dream $60 81 virago for my street tracker build not too long ago!

Anyway, my first thoughts without looking it up is that the CBR1000 fork tubes are larger diameter than the 600 and thus no compatibility?

[J6G1Z]

I'm only certain about the first generation CBR600 Hurricane parts being interchangeable. I would tend to agree with you that the CBR1000 tubes are probably bigger.

You could still use it, you would have to do a bearing swap in the steering neck & run the complete 1000 front end. Here is a link to some swap information: http://ascot500.com/index.php?topic=151.0

You should probably check out this link also: http://ascot500.com/index.php?topic=13.0  This guy used a CBR1000 front end on his FT Ascot. I believe there is a forum member that has done the same swap, but he hasn't been around for a while.

Whatever front end that you go with... You want the whole thing! From the wheel & brakes on up to the clip-ons & controls if you can get them. You may not use some of the parts, but it's far better selling extra parts, than it is looking for that one missing piece. I pieced together a rear end of a bike once & I could not find one spacer in the USA. Ended up buying one from the UK & was damn happy to have it.

Good luck & hang in there
J.

[johnnymot1]

Those links are just what the fork doctor ordered. Thanks!  Now that explains all those magical front end swaps that "just fit on the bike" in just a few bars of rock-a-billy music on the back episodes of "Cafe' Racer TV" I've watched......

Amazing what front ends will swap, but I see now I need to educate myself on stem length and how those are compatible, affect rake etc......Seems like stems could be shortened, machined and spacers added if needed.

[Luke]

  Now that explains all those magical front end swaps that "just fit on the bike" in just a few bars of rock-a-billy music on the back episodes of "Cafe' Racer TV" I've watched......

Ha! ... Love that show!

[johnnymot1]

I'm actually going to pick up that CBR1000 front end and front wheel. The owner doesn't need them as he pulled them off his CBR he modified, and it's a good deal for me too, to get the entire front end, brakes/discs/calipers/MC, and front wheel. Now I just need to make an all balls order for the correct bearings and find a rear wheel to match.  Looking forward to moving forward on my "hurricane sprung and wheeled" ascot project!

As for Cafe Racer TV, they could get just a little more technical on some of what they are doing, but it does give some good ideas from time to time. Just waiting for the day they discover the FT500.

[J6G1Z]

Know that the steering stem on the CBR1000 front end is probably longer than what is needed for the Ascot frame. I don't know that this is true, but I'm fairly certain that's what you'll find. I don't know how you would go about shortening the steering stem or if it will have enough thread at the top. You will have to mock it up & go from there.

Should be a very nice addition! Now you will have to find a rear wheel from a first generation CBR600 Hurricane. Again, you want the whole thing. Everything that fits on the rear axle including the spacers, brake caliper mount & caliper.

Good luck
J.

[johnnymot1]

I think that's a possibility too, since I haven't done my homework to research and compare dimensions, stem lengths etc... Looks like there are some good resources out there on compatibility, swaps etc from those links you provided earlier, so I hope I can start there. From there I'm hoping I can find a local machine shop with some resources and knowledge. Most of the guys making these fork swaps either are a machinist or have access to a machine shop and the expert knowledge to go with the equipment. I think it will be worth it in the end.

Definitely keeping an eye out for an entire rear wheel too, as it is a must with that front end.

[J6G1Z]

I'm very interested in learning what you find out when you mock it up. Most of those aluminum spar frame sport-bikes, have a large steering neck with a long steering stem. I'm thinking that too long is better than too short. You will probably need to press the steering stem out of the lower triple clamp. Cut the bottom off to the correct length & then press it back into the triple clamp again. It's kind of scary to know that most of those stems are just a press fit.

When approaching a machine shop, try to speak directly to the owner. When explaining your project, make sure that you quietly inform the owner that you will be paying with cash & don't need a receipt. Often they will make you a better deal that way.

J.

[johnnymot1]

Finally got the CBR1000 front end on the way. Once I get it, mock up and see what needs to be done, I will document, photograph and post. The set I picked up already has race tech springs in the set up, so that should be nice too.

Looking forward to getting it on the bike along with the rear.

[J6G1Z]

I'm looking forward to seeing what all is involved with fitting the CBR1000 front end. I believe that it has 41mm fork tubes. That will stiffen up the front end.

J.

[johnnymot1]

I finally closed the deal and got my CBR1000 front end. Looks nice and came with Race Tech springs installed by the previous owner. I did get the whole set up, triple trees, rim, brakes, (nice stainless steel lines too), MC and front axle. I'm going to begin working on the swap set up soon....According to one builder I've chatted with that 's started doing quite a few swaps on Viragos to GSXR front ends, "it's relatively simple and involves mating your current steering stem to the donor triple trees". Of course this guys pedigree is in motorcycle engineering, so it may be less simple for me.

I also picked up an NT650/Hawk front end, and am going to swap it into another ascot. From reading, that one appears that the entire front end including the hawk stem bolts right into the ascot steering head.

I'm happy to have found both of those complete front ends, but of course now that leaves me searching for two CBR600 Hurricane rear wheels/and components to complete a swap on both ends.

[J6G1Z]

Good deal on scoring both front ends. I think that is the most expensive & difficult end to source. You can probably find a rear wheel assembly on eBay fairly easy. The rear axle is interchangeable & you can use the Ascot axle. You basically need the rear wheel & cush-drive assembly, the axle spacers, caliper mount & rear brake caliper. You will have to fabricate a length of steel or aluminum into a rear caliper stay. New bearings & seals are available from "All Balls" along with the steering stem conversion bearings if needed.

The CBR wheels are substantially lighter than the Ascot wheels. I think they are lighter with rubber on them, than the bare Ascot wheel & is the main performance improvement aside from the stiffer suspension. Plus there are a ton of 17" tires to choose from. I just went with my standard Avon RoadRiders in the stock size for the CBR600. The 520 chain conversion loses several pounds from your drive assembly also.

Good luck & please post up some pics of your collection & progress.

J.

[johnnymot1]

Neil, from the list here who put a hawk front end on a very nice ascot he built was a big help in giving some details too, so his friendliness and information will be a big help too. He basically says with the tapered roller head bearings, the hawk triple tree bolts right up. And like many of us, he has some other nice projects in the works as well.

I'll post on these projects as well as a few other ascots too. Right now, it's "Ascot 101" just rehabbing a well abused ft500 back to stock running form, cleaning, tuning, and all that goes with a 30 plus year old bike overdue for it's routine maintenance. I've got the carb rebuilt/rejetted and with a few more tune up items and some OCD cleaning, it should be a nice stock daily rider. Another ascot sitting next too it undergoing similar rehab keeping looking at me saying "I want to be a GB500" a gnawing to attempt to imitate the low buck GB500 look alike ascot as seen in an internet picture.

Once I get those up and going, the CBR1000 fitted bike and the NT650 fitted bike should be fun, and I'm going to push the envelope a bit on the engines, suspension/frame and cosmetics too. I'll definitely post on those.....

Now to find a tank for the "GB500 Ascot" project.....Subject matter for a whole new thread!

[J6G1Z]

They really perform well with new shocks in the back, upgraded front end & 17" wheels! You will enjoy riding the modified bikes.

I'm looking forward to whenever I have the extra $$$'s to go through the engine & improve its performance. New clutch, high performance needle bearing camshaft & port-work, probably a small increase in bore size & a bump in compression. Until then, just making the bike lighter in weight has improved the performance immensely.

Good luck
J.

[johnnymot1]

That may make me shelve the "GB500" ascot build for now, and proceed with the Hawk/CBR hybrid wheel/fork build, thinking about the performance gains and "fun factor"

I did pick up a rear wheel and sprocket carrier today, but I'm still shopping for discs, and rear caliper mounts...It's looking the the first generation caliper mount may be quite a hunt.  I checking on other CBR compatibility, but I'm thinking it's going to be a redundant "1st generation compatibility" from my research.

[triguyracer]

being a newbi on this forum I would like to comment on the early post about using forks other than the ascot ones,the forks on a ascot are a leading axel type and by using a set of forks that are center axel type with the stock triple clamps you will change the trail by quite a bit,has anyone had problems with high speed stability when you shorten trail you tend to give away high speed stability

[J6G1Z]

I haven't noticed any at the speeds that an FT Ascot is capable of.

J.

[Diablita]

Hi guys! Cruising this site finally and saw this post so I thought I would share.  I race a modified Ascot in AHRMA (Vintage Superbike Lightweight) and use the Race Tech emulators in a Hawk front end. Highly recommend for racing scenarios, however you will need to change them once in a while depending on the track, they come with springs that allow you to stiffen or soften.  I have only ever ridden an Ascot with the Hawk forks so I can't speak for the stock setup.  But Matt Wiley at Race Tech was really helpful and knowledgeable and because the bike was setup up for a 200lb 6.2' guy, and I am 120, 5.5' the springs were changed.  As well as the shocks, which you can use Workes Performance, call Pierre, or if you like lots of adjustability, Ohlins will make a pair.

Hope that helps some. Fun little race bike for certain.
 
Helmets n' Heels

[J6G1Z]

Diablita,

Welcome to the board. That's a great looking Ascot you have there. Please feel free to start a new thread on your bike if you'd like. I'm sure everyone would enjoy learning more about it.

Thanks
J.