Author Topic: XL/XR kickstart  (Read 6209 times)

WTF304

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XL/XR kickstart
« on: January 11, 2015, 04:23:26 PM »
Probably been asked since this forum started,  has anyone taken the deleted kickstart system from this engine and re adapted it? .. yes electric is very nice, easy thing to have but why get rid of a ( just in case backup) way to start the bike. Thoughts and info appreciated

Just seems silly to get rid of a secondary, a kicker is still better then roll/pop starting in a failed electric start due to .... well anything.

J6G1Z

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Re: XL/XR kickstart
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2015, 06:21:43 AM »
I wish Honda had seen fit to install a kicker along with the electric start. The FT Ascot can be converted by sourcing the correct parts from several XR/XL models. I do not know the specifics. I have seen 2 pictures of FT Ascots that were retro-fitted with a kicker. It looks to me like the foot-peg is in the way of a full kick.

J.

WTF304

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Re: XL/XR kickstart
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2015, 07:49:11 PM »
Yea I've read that too ...  forgot where i read but somebody found a kicker from a completely different machine that the peg can stay and it got the full kick. Wish i could find out some part numbers, waiting for the some what local swap meet. Found alot of extras for my CT70, unfortunately no longer in my possession but that was a cool little bike. I once found a complete kickstart assembly for the XL/XR from around the same time the FT came about just didn't have the extra $$ at the time.

Anybody on this forum done the kickstart on theirs ?

J6G1Z

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Re: XL/XR kickstart
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2015, 05:15:15 AM »
I don't recall anyone going through the conversion on this site. There is discussion about it & a couple of pictures of completed bikes. You will need to do some parts compatibility research. Here is a picture of a custom Ascot with a kicker: http://ascot500.com/index.php?topic=13.0

Good luck
J.

WTF304

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Re: XL/XR kickstart
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2015, 07:28:23 PM »
I'm not entirely sure thats the engine that came in that, i think that's a swapped motor. Don't really see the deep pan or the electric starter, and alot of people from what i gather just swap the entire XL/XR engine and switch the electrical parts from the FT engine layout. Nicely done though

WTF304

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Re: XL/XR kickstart
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2015, 08:17:20 PM »
I had an extra clutch side cover laying around, and i have read that some people wasn't sure how they blocked off the opening. So i decided to find out, and it was very ingenious as to what they did and i do have a pic to share just needs resizing.

When you look at the inside of the cover there appears to be either unfinished machining or a plug, and yes it is a plug. The only unfinished machining is the spot for the decompression setup they used on the kicker. On the outer side the plug is covered with a make-shift seal... either incase the plug comes loose or from keeping anyone from tampering by misleading them to think that it's not machined out.

So with careful use of a drill bit, i removed the make-shift seal and it took absolutely no effort to do. Once the bit catches it spins loose and can be removed with ease,  then you'll find an aluminum plug that's stuffed in there. Turned the case over a few times to be sure which way it gets knocked out of the whole and it's ment to be pushed out from the inner side, hence that tapered look.

With a short 3/8 drive extension and light tapping the plug comes out and you now have the opening in the casing for your kickshaft and the oil seal.

WTF304

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Re: XL/XR kickstart
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2015, 08:35:22 PM »
Pic ;D ...... old spare side case, beaten up from tossing around and the P/O had laid it down long before i got it and became the ice racer. Have not done and will not to my other bike until all research has been done, but yes the foot peg and the rear brake pedal will have to have something done to accommodate a kicker being installed.

J6G1Z

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Re: XL/XR kickstart
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2015, 04:38:50 AM »
If you figure out how to do the conversion, please consider documenting the process & parts list.

Thanks
J.

WTF304

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Re: XL/XR kickstart
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2015, 09:12:49 AM »
Absolutely,  in all reality you just need all the parts they put on the XL500 of this style engine. The only part not needed because the side case wasn't finished, is the decompression setup that works off the kicker end. Unless you take it to a machine shop along with the decompression setup so it can be drilled to accommodate it.

CDWHILLAS

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Re: XL/XR kickstart
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2015, 09:48:41 PM »
Hi,

I have done the kickstart conversion on my FT using a XL500R's kickstart and used a decompression lever on the handlebar. If you download a parts list for a XL500R you can get the decompression lever and cable new but I had to make the engine end bracket. You will also have to machine the rocker cover to take the decompression lever, the oil seal is available from Honda. I opted for the XL500R decompression lever on the handle bar as it was simpler to install and it allowed me to use the decompression with the electric start.
I picked up a second hand XL500R engine block with the kickstart from a wrecker for $50 and it fitted straight into the FT motor no probs but it took me a while to get the oil seal. I am now trying to figure out how to fit a kickstart arm without having to change the current  foot peg and rear brake. I was looking at a restored  '72 CB350 Four today that had a kickstart arm that might just have enough clearance to work, it has a 2" offset and a better angle on the arm from the pivot point to clear the foot peg. I will make up something similar if the CB350 kickstart doesn't fit as this will let me keep the bike close to original as possible.
The yahoo user group has a really good file on the kickstart conversion at  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/honda-ascot/files/Compression%20Release%20%26%20Kick%20Starter/  which breaks it all down.
I hope to post some photos of the finished conversion in the next few weeks.

Cheers
Craig

WTF304

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Re: XL/XR kickstart
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2015, 09:44:53 AM »
That would be awesome, pictures  help alot. Was there a bearing or bushing that had to go inside the case for the kick shaft to sit in or ride off of. Looks like a big space for the size of the shaft.

CDWHILLAS

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Re: XL/XR kickstart
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2015, 07:43:32 PM »
The shaft for the kickstart just fits straight in with no bearings or bushes just the oilseal. Don't think it gets enough work to need the bearing and it splash lubes so it seems to be ok. I got an original kick start arm off a XL, there are 2 sizes so you will have to measure your shaft when you are sourcing to make sure you get the correct size. I think the XL250's have a smaller shaft. I am not real happy with the XL500 kick start as its a but agrarian and looks more suited to a tractor than a motor bike so I am hoping to get a chromed version off an old CB750 that will fit.
Cheers
Craig

J6G1Z

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Re: XL/XR kickstart
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2015, 04:47:48 AM »
Can the kicker be heated & bent to provide enough clearance?

I had heard that the foot peg/brake assemblies interfere with the kickers throw.

J.

scottly

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Re: XL/XR kickstart
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2015, 03:28:33 PM »
The CB750 has the same spline as the XR500, but the pivot is off-set towards the front, which interferes with the FT/XR case.

CDWHILLAS

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Re: XL/XR kickstart
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2015, 09:16:06 PM »
Thanks for the photos, CB750 arm is definitely not going to fit. The CB350 kicker has more of a offset plus I can heat and add a bit more of a offset  to the arm as well. That's the way I am thinking at the moment but a mate has suggested a more of a fish hook shaped arm that loops under the foot peg and comes up behind it with a pivot peg on the end. Got some electrical issues at the moment so need to sort them before I can attack the kicker.

honda

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Re: XL/XR kickstart
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2016, 03:19:32 PM »
Hi, did you ever get the kickstart sorted on your ascot ?

Would be keen to know what worked out for you

WTF304

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Re: XL/XR kickstart
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2016, 07:46:11 PM »
Been off the forum for a while ... but no i haven't pursued it, got too many projects and not enough time in the day .. plus having extra cash helps lol. I've got my FT, my CB400F, my girlfriend's Acura Integra, my 91 civic Si ...  list continues and I'm sure you get it.