Author Topic: Starter Question (Read 53210 times)

mikeyboi83 · « **on:** May 03, 2015, 06:08:22 pm »

So I believe my starter is bad, I can hear it click and spin...you can hear it try and catch and sometimes it will catch and fire up. Now I took out the solenoid assembly and all the teeth look good. When I look down in the housing that holds the lock cam and fork claw and its pretty grimmy so I will clean that up but it sounds like the starter is spinning but not engaging every time? I am assuming it is the starter clutch.

So my question is.....a family friend of mine things its the same thing (hes been working on bikes for 40 years) that the starter sounds like it is staying engaged....said to get a new starter and get a rebuild/repair kit.

So should I try the rebuild/repair kit first?

Thoughts/ideas?

Lefty · « **Reply #1 on:** May 04, 2015, 05:17:00 pm »

I had a similar problem recently, the bike had sat all winter & when I tried to start it, I heard the starter spinning & thought the worst. I checked my voltage & it was at 10.4 volts. I charged the battery up & it worked ever since. These bikes require a 14 amp hour battery, if I remember correctly & that's a lot of juice to start these big old engines. Try that before you do anything, Lefty

mikeyboi83 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 04, 2015, 10:02:47 pm »

Yep battery is fully charged and is also brand new.....so to start my detective work I removed the solenoid assembly so I could watch the idle gear and such to see if it was grabbing the drive shaft which it was...so I put in the drive pinion and held it in place and the drive shaft was pushing it out.

So I hooked up a batt charger with low voltage so I can turn over the bike so I could hear starter and it would just spin, well after putting back the solenoid assembly I tried it again and this time when I turned on the charger it started spinning the starter WITHOUT the key turn on! which led me to believe the starter solenoid is dying. It kept doing it a few times and it finally stopped.

Now I have to turn on the key like normal and hit the start button for it to turn, BUT this time all I heard was clicking and humming coming from the solenoid, it would not even engage the starter unless I bypassed the solenoid, but even that I could only do for a split second because it was litterly soldering the old screw driver I used to the nut on the solenoid. So I removed the solenoid relay and it is def the original. So before I take apart the starter and check/clean everything in there I will get a new solenoid.

Anyone have any input?

HOWEVER, when I bypassed the solenoid it would engage the starter and I would hear it spin and CLANK once or twice and spin. Sometimes it would CLANK and fire then spin.

Sound familiar to anyone?

WTF304 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 06, 2015, 11:05:59 pm »

I doubt the starter is staying engaged. .... that hit and miss is usually cause there isn't enough juice in the battery or the flywheel ring gear or pinion teeth are worn so badly that it only catches just in it's sweet spot ....... which is also caused by cranking the piss out of it and killing the battery. Dirty or worn components might cause it to stick or the spring infront of the pinion on the worm gear is weak or possibly missing. Get a proper battery, clean all the components real good and grease them ..... a starter either works or it doesn't simple as that so I'd skip the rebuild kit.

Not only does the starter need juice, the starter solenoid .... the ignition switch. .... the plunger to engage the pinion .... the starter relay .... starter button .... headlight and tail light cause they were designed to always be on .... the pulsar/pick up sensor. That stuff has a high demand for electricity. ..... couldn't hurt to locate and clean up or repair any ground wire connections

mikeyboi83 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 08, 2015, 01:14:06 am »

So I took apart the solenoid assembly and omg was it nasty!...took me little over half an hour to just get the solenoid loose. Someone must have removed it before me because it had a stripped phillips head screw. So I took it all apart, cleaned, oiled it all up and reassembled, before I took out the pinion I noted that when I would rotate the drive shaft to pull in the pinion I noticed that the fork claw was not going down enough so that when the lock cam came down it was not hooking onto the fork claw. So I cleaned everything nicely and after putting back together everything moved A LOT better BUT the fork claw was still not going down far enough. After I thought about it for a few I realized that whoever did this before me but the washer in upside down so it was flat! So I turned it over and it now works the way it should.

I also found out that the starter solenoid relay was bad, it started turning the starter without a key in the bike! I got a new one on the way so when it arrives I will give her a shot and report back to you guys!

Thanks

WTF304 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 08, 2015, 12:08:12 pm »

I'd check the wiring to while your waiting ...... couldn't hurt to. Never know the relay might be good but something is touching that shouldn't

mikeyboi83 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 08, 2015, 02:20:39 pm »

I was thinking the same thing, although my multimeter broke on me so I am going to get a new one.

Crossing my fingers that was the issue

In the mean time, I jacked her up and omg the grease and sludge build up! Looks like no one took care of her

WTF304 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 08, 2015, 02:57:56 pm »

Probably not .... luckly the PO who had it, was his first bike and the second owner. He took decent care of it and left it as original, now it's mine and i went through the whole bike over the winter months.

mikeyboi83 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 11, 2015, 08:55:26 pm »

So I hooked up the relay solenoid that the batter and starter ground is connected too, I get power but all I hear when I hit the start button is just the clicking of the solenoid thats hooked into the solenoid assmbly that controls the lock cam. Even if I jump the solenoid with a screwdriver nothing happens. I am at a loss here, any suggestions?

WTF304 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 11, 2015, 09:12:01 pm »

Either a bad connection or something is bound up .... you didnt hit the starter with anything did you ? Tapping it with a hammer actually does damage to it. Or maybe you plugged it into the wrong connector possibly! ? I know the plugs look identical by the air box just double check it.

I'm almost willing to bet it's a bad connection, or maybe it is some wires got hot and melted to one another. It use to crank by itself but now that you took it apart and moved things it could have broken some strands of the wire.

mikeyboi83 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 11, 2015, 09:22:39 pm »

I tried hooking the relay up the other way and got no power so I know it is correct now, now I did try and connect just the power to the power on the relay and the ground directly to the ground on the side of the starter and still nothing. The manual says control unit, starter relay under the seat.

Even if one of those were bad, wouldnt the starter turn if I short the solenoid out with a screwdriver?

Have a feeling its either a loose wire or could be the starter. Now I did do some cleaning on the under body, maybe that could have done something. I guess I could take out the starter and check that by hooking it up to a battery to see if it spins.

mikeyboi83 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 11, 2015, 09:28:06 pm »

Forgot to mention that when I short the relay that should spin the starter, al I hear is a humming coming from the starter and if I keep doing it on occasion it will spin for a split second them hum.

Update, so I am an idiot and had a charger hooked up to the bike so I wouldnt drain my battery during that. So I hooked up the battery and the starter turns when I jump the relay BUT NOT with the start button, so now I know there is something wrong there. Also it is still making that ungodly clanking noise when the starter engages and when it clanks it stops and starter spins. Once in a while it will catch and turn the engine over. So I am assuming it is a bad idle gear?

WTF304 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 12, 2015, 01:16:01 am »

I'm not too sure on that one ..... possible but not sure. Did the pinion move freely on the worm gear ?

mikeyboi83 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 13, 2015, 12:18:37 am »

Come to find out the washer the pinion gear sat on was not thick enough, I watched the lock cam work as I jumped the solenoid and it did not go down far enough so I put a thicker washer on and now its good. So now I need to find out why the start button does not work, all it does is make the solenoid click but not turn the starter..Battery is fully charged, checked that already. So now I need to trace the grounds and check them. Because keep jumping the solenoid is starting to melt the bolts, thank god a have anew spare one lol

mikeyboi83 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 13, 2015, 07:09:10 pm »

I can not seem to find the problem! All I still get is a click when I hit the button. All contacts are cleaned and the starter will only turn when I jump the relay. So the starter is not bad and I have a new starter solenoid, well an aftermarket one. I am so at a loss here. I took apart the kill switch I wired up to make sure that was not the problem and it is not, and I also took the wires out of the 4 pin connecter that goes into the starter solenoid because the side of the connector was burnt from jumping it. I will be getting new prongs to attach the wires into a new 4 pin connector tomorrow. Even hooking the wires directly to the solenoid it does the same thing and yes I got them correct.

WTF304 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 13, 2015, 08:58:12 pm »

Could be a improper solenoid ..... not all of them work the same. If it did the same thing with the old one put it back in. you found a burned connection i would trace down those wires all the way from start to finish, you could always re tape the harness afterwards. If you need a diagram i could snap some shots of my book once i return home, but I'm almost 100% positive someone has already posted one .... might do some good to check the threads on here.

mikeyboi83 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 13, 2015, 09:17:50 pm »

Thing is I am not sure about the old one now, it just clicks with the old one BUT, when I thought it was dead I opened it up to see if it was burnt since I was getting a new one and the two little wires looked like they broke but when I put it back together it still gets power to everything and the clicking noise is still there.

Yea I will look at the wiring diagram I have it saved from a previous post.

So sounds like improper solenoid or burnt connection?

WTF304 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 13, 2015, 11:45:18 pm »

If something got burned it's cause the wire wasn't able to hold resistance. ... something drawn way too much juice. And if the circuit was overloaded ..... i could be wrong but check the wires and the components for the starting system, might be something you missed

Good luck
TF

mikeyboi83 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 14, 2015, 04:48:23 am »

So I find out that the 4 pin that connects to the solenoid that goes to the starter and batter is getting power but when I hit the start button the solenoid is not clicking, only the relay is. So that tells me the starter solenoid is bad?

J6G1Z · « **Reply #19 on:** May 14, 2015, 08:09:12 am »

I'm not able to offer any advise as I have not experienced any starter problems, yet. Knock on wood.

Check out this link from the Yahoo FT Ascot Owners Group: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/honda-ascot/files/Starter%20Issues/

You may have to join the group to view the information.

Good luck
J.

WTF304 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 14, 2015, 03:06:51 pm »

You changed it though didn't you ? ..... one tool to have for electrical work is a power probe, best tool I've ever had. The relay is clicking but your not getting power at the solenoid perhaps ..... might be the signal wire. Those pins could also be touching inside that burned connector end, or just irrelevantly the starter is actually at fault .... did you try giving it direct power straight from the battery ? run a test wire from the battery and go straight to the starter .... if it turns over then it's not the starter and your right back at the other components and wires. Could the motor be locked up ?

mikeyboi83 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 14, 2015, 04:02:12 pm »

Yep I have a test wire and the wires have power like they should and yep I ran power directly to the starter and it cranked and started the bike lol. But once I put the connecter into the solenoid I get nothing, not even a click from the solenoid itself.

You are right I did change it BUT it was just a $10 done from ebay so I am not sure how good it actually is.

WTF304 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 14, 2015, 04:44:21 pm »

Did you test the old relay or solenoid for continuity? Or resistance...... just for shits and giggles check up by the key switch that's the only other thing i can think atm.

WTF304 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 14, 2015, 04:49:11 pm »

Just had another thought ..... and probably the dumbest thing that always beats people in the head .... did you check the to glass fuses ?

WTF304 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 14, 2015, 04:51:56 pm »

Here's a diagram of the wire color and components for the staring system

News:

Author Topic: Starter Question (Read 53210 times)